{"id":6521,"date":"2025-04-01T23:07:27","date_gmt":"2025-04-01T12:07:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/paininthearts.life\/?post_type=transcript&#038;p=6521"},"modified":"2025-04-16T16:38:39","modified_gmt":"2025-04-16T06:38:39","slug":"ep-14-the-artist-hustle-how-to-make-money-from-art-without-losing-your-passion","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/paininthearts.life\/index.php\/transcript\/ep-14-the-artist-hustle-how-to-make-money-from-art-without-losing-your-passion\/","title":{"rendered":"Ep 14 &#8211; The Artist Hustle: How to Make Money from Art Without Losing Your Passion"},"content":{"rendered":"<p class=\"has-text-align-center\">April 1, 2025&nbsp;\u00b7&nbsp;Episode 14<br>50 Min, 43 Sec<\/p><figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls src=\"https:\/\/open.acast.com\/public\/streams\/66bc1a4d8681753490f376cc\/episodes\/67ebd5867828ca699cc57edb.mp3\"><\/audio><\/figure><h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Summary<\/h2><p>Is turning your art into a business the dream\u2014or the fastest way to kill your creativity? In this episode, Lyndon and Brea talk about what it means to build a sustainable creative business while staying true to the craft. From the pressure to monetize everything to the guilt of doing unpaid creative work, they wrestle with the realities of the artist hustle and discuss how to make money from art without losing the passion that started it all.<\/p><p>Love this conversation? Get <a href=\"https:\/\/patreon.com\/painintheartslife\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">exclusive podcast episodes on our Patreon<\/a> and support the show!<\/p><h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript<\/h2><style>\n    body { font-family: Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 1.6; margin: 20px; }\n    h1, h2, h3 { color: #333; margin-bottom: 0.5em; }\n    p { margin: 0 0 1em; }\n    .speaker { font-weight: bold; }\n    .line { margin-bottom: 0.5em; }\n    .section { margin-bottom: 2em; }\n    a { color: #0066cc; text-decoration: none; }\n    a:hover { text-decoration: underline; }\n  <\/style>\n<\/head>\n<body>\n  <header>\n   \n  <\/header>\n\n  <!-- Section 1: Opening -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"opening\">\n\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Are you ready to get stuck into it?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Ready to go?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> All right, let&#8217;s go.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">Welcome to Pain in the Arts, where the pursuit of meaningful art meets the unpredictable demands of real life.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> I&#8217;m Breallyn.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> And I am Lyndon.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Thank you for joining us. Busy day today?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> No.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> No, not for you?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> No.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Oh, it&#8217;s good.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I don&#8217;t subscribe to being busy anymore.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Lucky for some, I guess.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I just I waver between being semi-retired and overwhelmed, striking the balance there. That&#8217;s, my constant state of being. Everything&#8217;s great till it isn&#8217;t. And, yeah.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 2: Daily Experiences -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"daily-experiences\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>Daily Experiences<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> I feel like I&#8217;ve flip flopped around today. Doing well, wearing all the different hats. I&#8217;ve pulled a night shift with Birdie and then I&#8217;ve jumped on to consult with a new client for my copywriting business. Then I&#8217;ve prepared an episode that I will be shortly bringing to the studio here, which has been good. But I believe it was your week.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> So I guess you were more into \u2013 the semi retirement.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Well, like I said in previous episodes, it doesn&#8217;t matter whose week it was, what&#8217;s important is that we alternate at some point. Right.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> There you go. Today I&#8217;m on fire clearly. So<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Who&#8217;s counting? Not me.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 3: Car Negotiations -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"car-negotiations\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>Car Negotiations and Lifestyle<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I have had a week of, let&#8217;s just say in summary, a week of looking at getting a secondhand car, offering someone the money they wanted and them not selling it to me. So that was new. Yeah. But so the hunt continues for a, second car for the gas<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> guzzler that we&#8217;re after. Yep.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Do you remember the time when we just had one car?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> No, when.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> No. Me either.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> We&#8217;ve never had one. We<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> had one car each. Okay. So nothing&#8217;s changed. and<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> when you say second car, it&#8217;s actually our third car here. We already have two cars.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Yeah. this, is the thing though. We work from home, so the cars aren&#8217;t getting used, but the second car, let&#8217;s say, it doesn&#8217;t get used much. So it&#8217;s really more of a lifestyle vehicle, anyway.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. So I think that&#8217;s taken up quite a lot of your head space this week trying to negotiate with somebody who offered a roadworthy but wasn&#8217;t prepared to actually come through with it. I think that was the hitch point.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Anyw who, yeah, that&#8217;s got me all in a frazzle. It has,<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> I think you&#8217;ve lost many nights sleep over it.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I did, actually. There was two nights in particular I did anyway, it&#8217;s just my personality. It&#8217;s who I am. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with me. And I really take umbrage to the fact that you would suggest that I need to seek help. Anyway. What, what are we talking about today? Now? What&#8217;s your gem? What are you bringing today?<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 4: Topic Introduction -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"topic-introduction\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>How to Make Money from Art Without Losing Your Passion<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Today we are talking about money, which<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Well, there you go. I guess the story about the car was on topic time. Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Timely. There you go. Today is about art and the hustle of making it all work. I started to prepare this topic just because generally it&#8217;s relevant, to artists, people that are trying to create something, but also make a living and so on.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">But, as I was going along, I realized that it&#8217;s actually quite timely because one of our sons is trying to figure out, what to do once he finishes school. He is in his last year of school. Ideally, he&#8217;d love to be a drummer full time and not have to worry about other work.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">But we have this\u2014not very fun\u2014position of trying to encourage him to pursue his music, but also, if you wanna move out, if you wanna buy a car, if you wanna do these things, you&#8217;ve gotta make a living as well. So it is the endless struggle of artists, I think, to juggle the two things.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">And yeah. Timely for our son and perpetually a topic that we have come up with again and again in our lives of just trying to make ends meet and still give time and dedication to our arts. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re talking about, money.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 5: Lyndon's Reflections -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"lyndon-reflections\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>Lyndon&#8217;s Reflections: Early Hustle and Making Ends Meet<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> So I don&#8217;t really have a leg to stand on because, when I\u2014&#8217;cause I remember thinking the same way as our son and, yeah, I had jobs and things that I was doing, but music was the main focus. So I was working at 7-Eleven and I was a guitar teacher, those were two jobs that I had.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">And I was living on my own, so I was, yeah, 18 and living in a unit renting. So yeah, I had to make ends meet and I couldn&#8217;t have done it just with my original music, that&#8217;s for sure. In fact, if I remember back to the days when I was really starting to get serious about promoting myself and\u2014<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">So on. Every time I did a gig, it cost me money.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">I know. Yeah. So I was sort saying like, &#8220;Where do I stand?&#8221; And while I encourage him too\u2014I certainly won&#8217;t be encouraging him not to be a drummer\u2014but yeah, it is. When you&#8217;re that age and you&#8217;ve got so much passion about this one thing, it&#8217;s really hard to see beyond that until you are in a position where you have to pay the rent.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">Yeah, I know. And you have to put food on the table and that, that&#8217;s probably the only thing that makes a difference.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 6: The Struggle and Compromises -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"struggle-compromises\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>The Struggle: Compromising Art for Financial Necessity<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> It would be nice if we didn&#8217;t have to make those choices or think that way of compromising the artistic pursuit in order to just make ends meet, but somehow our society&#8217;s organized itself in a way that means that we have to do it like that. I don&#8217;t know why, but it is like that; there&#8217;s talk now of implementing universal basic income, which would be pretty great. But from my point of view anyway, until that happens, I guess we&#8217;ll have to\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Universal basic income.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">Yeah. That would be a pretty tough ask.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> It would be. I know, but Brian Eno some ideas until we get there.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Brian Eno is a firm believer that it&#8217;s better to have deadlines and a small budget than to have a massive budget and no deadlines.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">So Brian Eno, for anyone that doesn&#8217;t know, is a music producer\u2014he&#8217;s produced for David Bowie, among others\u2014and he&#8217;s also a critical thinker. He&#8217;s definitely a firm believer in that.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">You were just talking about why society is\u2026 what were you saying? It would be nice to just be able to not have to worry about money and just focus on your art. But I\u2014and, yeah. That&#8217;s what made me think of Brian Eno because in that situation, you&#8217;ve just got copious, endless amounts of time.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">Yeah. And for someone like me, I&#8217;d probably never finish anything.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">I really do need a deadline. Yeah. And I think that&#8217;s probably true for people in any field.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> I guess. So yeah, deadlines and budgets are the constraints that do make you knuckle down and get something done, get things finished, and that&#8217;s good.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">And budget,<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> The budget&#8217;s a big one. As this week I&#8217;ve been back looking at grants and I didn&#8217;t realize how many artists in Australia\u2014maybe not surviving off of grants, but certainly grants make up a big part of their, if not their annual income. It certainly makes up a big part of them being able to create and continue creating.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> So I know something I&#8217;ve come across starting this studio here at Morning Phase is I&#8217;ve had a couple of people that were super keen to record with me, but it all comes down to budget. And I don&#8217;t mean that because I&#8217;m priced myself out of the market. It&#8217;s literally them saying, &#8220;Okay, if I record and put money into this, that means I don&#8217;t have money for something else&#8221;\u2014that I really need it for. And so that&#8217;s what started me looking at grants again. Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. Grants are a good way to finance projects and get things done.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 7: Grant Writing and Freelancing -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"grant-freelancing\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>Grant Writing and Freelancing<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> They&#8217;re just very intimidating when you&#8217;ve gotta sit down and write them. So I know\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> I&#8217;m thinking of doing a bit of a deep dive into grant writing. &#8216;Cause as a copywriter, I write a lot of things, but grants is not one of the things I&#8217;ve specialized in. So I&#8217;ve turned away a couple of clients because I&#8217;ve just said, &#8220;Look, find somebody who has written grants and has specialized in it.&#8221; But maybe it&#8217;s something that I should, I don&#8217;t know, maybe I will for you and then perhaps extend my services. Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Yeah, I was in an ask-me-anything group chat with Isabella Man Freddy, who is just a fantastic Australian singer and songwriter. And she was saying to the group that it&#8217;s a full-time job writing grants. So you don&#8217;t just write one or two and then cross your fingers and hope for the best. It needs to be part of your annual activity.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> That&#8217;s absolutely what I&#8217;m looking at doing now, because if I can get a grant\u2014a budget\u2014to record an artist, that means I can offer my services to someone and we can create something great together. We can collaborate and do that without the worries of, or the stresses of, the studio costs of funding it.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Cost. Yeah. Yep.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 8: Diversifying Income Streams -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"diversifying-income\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>Diversifying Income Streams and Residual Income<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Anyway, I&#8217;ve derailed your topic right from the outset.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> No, you haven&#8217;t, &#8217;cause that was gonna be within it\u2014grants are one of the things\u2014but I&#8217;ve got a number of ways of not making money. It&#8217;s not just ideas for making money, but it&#8217;s ways in which artists fund themselves and make life work that I thought we could discuss. And as I was doing the research and putting them all down, I realized that between us, we&#8217;ve done a number of them\u2014dabbled in quite a lot of them. And I would say a lot of our friends in the artistic community have as well; you just try to find all these different ways of making life work.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">The first one, which would be ideal\u2014and our son would love to do\u2014is just doing your art and getting paid for it. So whether you are a writer, a musician, or a visual artist, just pursue that golden artistic dream that you have, chase down those ideas and get them done. And actually be recognized for that specific work, with no other side hustles or anything, so that would be lovely.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">We haven&#8217;t managed to do that one.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> While you&#8217;re saying it, I was thinking how I imagine that people who have done that have possibly had zero regard for the outcome\u2014when you were saying, and that&#8217;s what they&#8217;d be noted for, to just do this one thing. That&#8217;s what you do. It can even be unique to you. And then that&#8217;s what you get known for. I just can&#8217;t imagine that anyone who has done that has thought about it that far ahead.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> No. It seems to be\u2014not always, certainly, but\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> As in, the commerce side of it hasn&#8217;t bothered them. It hasn&#8217;t been the first thing. Mind you, other things suffer and fall away historically. You do have to make a sacrifice, living below your means for as long as it takes\u2014potentially forever. And not everyone is up to that.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. And even then, I think it&#8217;s\u2014I know for writers it can be a hard thing. Like you write a first book and it gets some notoriety and you might win a prize or something, or get a publishing deal\u2014the pressure is on to write that second book and have that also be as good in quality, like publishing a book every single year to build that body of work which will then bring in that income stream over time. But, in the meantime, it can be extremely hard and, yeah, life can be compromised.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 9: Freelancing and the Gig Economy -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"freelancing-gig\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>Freelancing and the Gig Economy<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I generalized too\u2014just a couple of people popped into my head that I thought, maybe they&#8217;re doing it. Yeah, so that would be great to be able to just focus on that art and have it almost incidentally bring you financial stability. I guess we&#8217;d want to encourage all our friends or all artists doing stuff to really be able to focus on that, even if you&#8217;ve got to take some of these other measures at the same time.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. To go for the purity of the art that you want to create. The second thing I wanted to talk about was, I guess, freelancing and the gig economy. It&#8217;s not something we&#8217;ve always been doing, but certainly it is at the moment.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">You can do a freelancing type job with your artistic skills and build a business that way. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve done with my copywriting business.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">If you&#8217;re a visual artist, you could be doing illustrations or graphic design work; if you&#8217;re in music production, you could be writing music for jingles and other artists. So there are always opportunities there\u2014if you&#8217;re willing to look for them.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> The opportunities are endless.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> They are endless. Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Often in the gig economy, it does allow for creativity. You could just about find someone making money from anything.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Just about. Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> It&#8217;s just a matter of working out what that could be. Some lateral thinking. I guess the smart way would be to see where an opening in the market is, but even then, some things you won&#8217;t see if it&#8217;s not your run-of-the-mill regular kind of thing.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. I think sometimes artists just find that they&#8217;re commissioned to do stuff and then more work finds its way to them, and they end up opening a niche for themselves that way. Or else it&#8217;s a strategic thing: &#8220;Hey, I&#8217;ve gotta make some money. How am I going to do it?&#8221;<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">I think the thing we found with working this way is that it&#8217;s a good way to use your skills and at least stay in the stream of the arts you enjoy doing to make money. But it does seem to take a lot of time and effort\u2014focus, building a business, figuring out invoicing, contracts, and so on.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">So you end up spending a lot of time on the business of making your art available to others. It is a good way to do it. You can build good portfolios of your skills to show what you&#8217;re doing across various networks. You can use platforms like Upwork or Fiverr to connect with potential clients looking for your creative skillset.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">If you create a consistent brand across all your marketing and what you&#8217;re doing, people will find you and start looking for what you do, rather than you having to bend to what others want. So that can be a good way to work.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 10: YouTube and Niche Opportunities -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"youtube-niche\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>YouTube and Niche Opportunities for Retired Creatives<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I was just thinking that in the gig economy, sometimes people will take a facet of what they do artistically and that becomes the gig or the part of it that they monetize.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yes. And you\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> \u2026see this with artists online. For instance, painters and illustrators online may have a particular way they like to work that they won&#8217;t sell\u2014they&#8217;re certainly not gonna be like making prints of it and so on. But then there&#8217;s another aspect to their work where they do make prints and they sell them as postcards, tee towels, etc.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> That&#8217;s actually leading into my next point: diversifying income streams. Yes\u2014selling prints or homemade art through Etsy and local markets, or if you&#8217;re not a visual artist, developing and selling digital products like eBooks to reach a wide audience and scale your income. There&#8217;s also running workshops and creating online courses, which are huge at the moment for any skillset.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I even noticed there&#8217;s a niche on YouTube of retired people encouraging each other to create a YouTube channel.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Because they go, &#8220;You know what?&#8221; It&#8217;s predominantly been a space for 20- to 30-year-olds. But we&#8217;ve got something to offer\u2014we&#8217;ve got our life experience.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> So if you&#8217;re into it\u2014 I saw a guy and he was, I think, particularly into cycling. He worked as a corporate guy, but had this passion for cycling, so he thought, &#8220;If I do a YouTube channel about that, my time is my own rather than working part-time in a cycle shop.&#8221; And he had a mate who was a fly fisher making his own flies. He found a niche in that too.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I thought that was really interesting\u2014that there was this whole demographic of people finding an outlet in a medium unfamiliar to them, which could potentially bring them enough side income in their retired years so they wouldn&#8217;t have to work in a bricks-and-mortar store.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Yeah, that&#8217;s\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Definitely, it&#8217;s interesting. Definitely a good way to make something fun and potentially get an income for those retired people taking all our jobs.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Oh dear mate. Taking up all of the YouTube channels that there are. Get out of our digital space.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Go find your own niche.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Go create your own interweb.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> So yeah, so looking at how you can diversify the income you&#8217;re making, or if you have a product or a service, can you reimagine it so that it fits a different market or package it in a different way so you can sell it in a different kind of space.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">That&#8217;s a good way to do it. There&#8217;s also residual income opportunities\u2014that&#8217;d be the life. That&#8217;d be awesome.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">Residuals\u2014things that generate income over time, like stock photography, licensing your artworks, and obviously royalties from books or music, which we&#8217;d love to be doing at some point.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> So yeah, just those passive income streams can support your long-term financial stability. If you think about licensing your artwork for things like prints, apparel, or home decor. Home decor?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Decor,<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> I can&#8217;t say decor. It&#8217;s a home decor.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I believe it&#8217;s decor, but say decor. If you want home decor\u2014decor,<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> I can&#8217;t talk. Visual artists can license their artwork for merchandise such as prints and home decor, getting ongoing income through royalties, although I seem to find many visual artists end up with their works stolen literally by unethical brands who then just use their designs on t-shirts, beach towels, and whatnot.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">So that&#8217;s always a risk\u2014heartbreaking. Yeah. Not good. And if you&#8217;re a writer, you can write and self-publish books or eBooks, or create audiobooks, and get direct sales and long-term royalties. It&#8217;s,<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I feel so, like, all of this is true. This is what\u2014what does it all fall under the banner of diversifying?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Oh, embracing residual income opportunities is what I&#8217;ve written as, oh, residual income opportunities.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I don&#8217;t know, I just\u2014yeah, it&#8217;s all true. It&#8217;s just strange, just talking about it. Like when you just hear one thing after another, it&#8217;s so de-energising, isn&#8217;t it? It just seems so, I don&#8217;t know, why is that?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Maybe because we know from experience how much effort it takes to get these things. It sounds great\u2014oh, awesome residual income: create something and then let the money continually flow in. But we know that&#8217;s not really like that\u2014you&#8217;ve got to keep marketing, you&#8217;ve got to keep working at it all the time.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what I was touching on. I think I&#8217;m touching on the fact that if we were talking about the inspiration behind a work, the genesis of an idea, or how something came to be, I would find that really energising. But when we&#8217;re actually talking about all these different avenues and things of making money from it, it&#8217;s, yeah. It&#8217;s just I have a completely, yeah, I just have a different feeling about it.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> And I feel like that&#8217;s been how our struggle has always been: we get inspired about the work and the ideas and then, obviously, trying to make ends meet crops up. So then you go, &#8220;Oh, yeah, can we make money somehow through the art or through changing things or do you know?&#8221; And it just, yeah, it just ends up in a cycle. We&#8217;re constantly trying to do the things that energise us, that feel inspiring and bring something to life in this world. And then the flip side of it is that it&#8217;s also nice to have nice things\u2014to keep the lights on. There&#8217;s just not enough hours in the day.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I went and saw a singer-songwriter last week, Karlo, and rocked up to his gig in Brunswick. And Karlo is<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Lovely. He&#8217;s been here at Morning Phase Studios doing a little bit of demo work and it&#8217;s been great to have him.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> And he was saying that just talking about the slog of getting a gig and how many emails and phone calls you&#8217;ve gotta make just to get that one gig\u2014and that once you&#8217;ve got those gigs, you still need to keep doing that. It&#8217;s endless.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> That&#8217;s right, &#8217;cause they come and they go and then they&#8217;re done.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> But yeah, today when I was doing some editing and I realised I hadn&#8217;t played guitar or done anything really musical for at least 24 hours, I was just thinking about balance. And everything always comes back to balance\u2014understanding what fills you up and what depletes you. For me to join the dots between what I do creatively and where the money comes in, I need to be filled up first. That&#8217;s a good point. So if I spend too many days in a row without that need being met, I can&#8217;t do the other side of that equation.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> In the example of Karlo, like sending an email and calling someone\u2014it&#8217;s not actually that hard to do, but man, it can feel like such\u2014it&#8217;s pretty<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> weighty. You do have, it&#8217;s such a difficult thing<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> to even pick up the phone.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">It&#8217;s just interesting that while you&#8217;re talking about all this stuff, it&#8217;s the same sort of feelings coming into me. I just thought it was worth mentioning.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah, and I guess in this topic, we don&#8217;t want it to just be like this down vibe of &#8220;find a way to pay your rent&#8221; because you&#8217;ll have to find some way.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Well. When I was talking to Karlo, he put a post up the week before that gig saying he had been thinking about throwing it all in after three years\u2014just so many mixed results and so many ups and downs along the way, and it was really starting to wear on him, understandably. And nothing to do with his talent at all. It&#8217;s just the reality of living that life.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Absolutely.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> And then the day that he was seriously thinking about quitting, he got an invitation to play at a music festival. And then that bolstered him up again and gave him the encouragement he needed to continue on. And when we were talking after his gig, I said, &#8220;That happens all the time.&#8221; That&#8217;s the life of an artist\u2014ups and downs all the time. And yeah, you need the highs to sustain you through the lows. And I said, &#8220;But the question you need to resolve within yourself is: Will you ever stop doing it? Are you prepared to not be a singer or are you ever gonna stop writing songs?&#8221;<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">Yeah, he couldn&#8217;t answer yes to that. Of course he wouldn&#8217;t. No, that&#8217;s true. So once you&#8217;ve got to that point, you go, &#8220;Actually, this is me. I am gonna be doing this the rest of my life.&#8221; It reframes the whole thing for you and you go, &#8220;Okay, this is who I am. And this is how it&#8217;s gonna be.&#8221; And then, guess what, you gotta remind yourself of that every couple of years when you ask, &#8220;Why am I doing this again?&#8221; It&#8217;s because you knew that you were always going to\u2014oh, okay. That&#8217;s right. And then you keep going.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. I think if you know artists as artists, it doesn&#8217;t even matter if they&#8217;re doing a different job at the time. You know that&#8217;s what&#8217;s within them. I don&#8217;t think I could ever see you as not a\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Musician at some point. I like to think that&#8217;s true. But I have to say, when I was doing coffee and when people knew I had a coffee van\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> And they saw you as a coffee\u2026 and they\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> hadn&#8217;t seen me for a while, even, and people go, &#8220;How&#8217;s\u2014&#8221; This is a question I got a lot. People hadn&#8217;t seen me for a while. &#8220;Do you still have the coffee van?&#8221; Nothing about my music.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> It was, have you got the coffee van or how&#8217;s the coffee van going? Or it was always to do with the coffee and I loved being known as The Caffeinator by my customers. Once I&#8217;d finished doing that, &#8217;cause that was the day job, I didn&#8217;t wanna be known as The Caffeinator\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. I didn&#8217;t\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> wanna be known as the coffee guy.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yep.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> And it really bothered me that what I was really passionate about\u2014and what I&#8217;d actually devoted my whole life to for decades before I even decided to run a coffee van in the mornings\u2014wasn&#8217;t being acknowledged. It wasn&#8217;t being asked about. No one cared. And that was for, a decade. That&#8217;s how it felt. And yeah, I don&#8217;t know.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. We&#8217;re getting off topic and perhaps we can do an episode on\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Guilty. Put my hand up. I&#8217;m\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Guilty forever. We could do an episode on identity, I think, which would be really good. I certainly relate because for so long all I was asked about were the children, &#8217;cause I was a mother\u2014and that&#8217;s all people would see. That&#8217;s a common thing with mothers, isn&#8217;t it?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Especially if they did have a career.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. And true. We could do an episode on that\u2014I think we should.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I could sit that one out.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Guilty forever. We could talk a lot more about that because it&#8217;s integral. Alright, let&#8217;s talk about another way of making ends meet, which we are also dabbling in at the moment, and that&#8217;s crowdfunding and patronage.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 11: Crowdfunding and Patronage -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"crowdfunding-patronage\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n    <h3>Crowdfunding and Patronage<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Yeah. So that&#8217;s right. The GoFundMe and the Kickstarters seem to be very project oriented. Yeah. Whereas something like Patreon or Substack for writers is a popular subscription model.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yep.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> And I know with Patreon it was built specifically to connect artists and creative people directly with their fans. It was set up for creatives\u2014it wasn&#8217;t set up for any other reason. I think Substack is similar, but predominantly for writers. So anyway, that&#8217;s the two different models.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah, that&#8217;s right. So essentially there is the project-based approach and then the ongoing support model, which is great. And the point is, it&#8217;s not just about getting financial assistance\u2014it&#8217;s really about connecting with the people who love your work and getting real-time feedback, bonus content, or involvement in the process.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> They love that. It&#8217;s a shame when you don&#8217;t have the funds to release an album in the best way possible. And sometimes you don&#8217;t realize that 200 people might be waiting for you to put that album out.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. That I&#8217;d love to hear. So if someone would pay you $30 for your album\u2014this was before Spotify\u2014and if 500 people, or even a thousand, did so, what if you had that $30,000 to make the album?<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> And that&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve noticed musicians are still doing today.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> And fans understand it. Your mom, your dad, your cousins might not understand that economy, but fans do. They&#8217;re more than happy to help you get something across the line.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. For the fans, it&#8217;s an opportunity to be involved and be part of something\u2014to be part of it. With my help, this artist can get their work out. That&#8217;s incredible. It&#8217;s so good.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I remember being part of Friends of the Enz, which was the fan club for Split Enz, and just being part of that and getting occasional updates made you feel like an insider\u2014definitely part of that family.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> That&#8217;s great.<\/p>\n  <\/section>\n\n  <!-- Section 12: Teaching and Mentoring -->\n  <section class=\"section\" id=\"teaching-mentoring\">\n    <h3>Teaching and Mentoring<\/h3>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> The next thing we can touch on is teaching and mentoring. There are lots of opportunities for artists to teach\u2014to get an educational position. There&#8217;s online classes, private tutoring, guest lectures, and workshops. Some of the benefits of that, like you&#8217;re getting a more regular income stream, but you&#8217;re also able to inspire and educate others.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">And also, if you teach something, it really refines your own skills as soon as you&#8217;ve gotta teach somebody something. You have to know your stuff and it makes you feel like you&#8217;re more in touch with it, or you&#8217;re more on top of it, in certain subject areas. I know there are different times I&#8217;ve talked about writing or whatever.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">All of a sudden I feel like I&#8217;m more of an authority on the subject rather than a perpetual student myself, which I always feel like anyway. But yeah, being a teacher flips you around a little bit.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Yeah, that&#8217;s true. And it&#8217;s a strange thing to, to on one hand know that you never stop learning, and then on the other hand, to be teaching\u2014it&#8217;s something that needs to be reconciled within yourself. I know one of the ways I did it was to try and teach students to never stop learning, to teach themselves rather than just relying on me, to give them as much as they can work on for a week.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">It was like, yeah, absolutely\u2014trying to have this much bigger picture, a commitment to the art form. So that was one way that I tried to do it and I think what that also did was highlight for me the students that were more on the same level.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Regardless of skill.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">Some of the areas you can focus on teaching would be coaching and consultancy, which might even fit in with some of the freelance work we talked about earlier.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">You could develop online courses. There are platforms like Skillshare and Teachable that allow you to reach a global audience and really market yourself in that way. And you can also go local\u2014talk to schools and organizations and offer guest lecturing or one-off workshops.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\">There&#8217;s a bunch of different community groups that can really benefit from their local artists coming in and sharing their skills and work.<\/p>\n    <!-- Here is the extensive lecturer at Melbourne Uni conversation -->\n    <section id=\"day-job-and-academia\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n  <h3>Day Jobs, Creative Industries, and Academia<\/h3>\n  <p>The next thing we could talk about is, I guess, the mix of working a day job that has literally nothing to do with your art\u2014and just using that as a way to fund a life, and then being able to fit your art in. So there&#8217;s lots of part-time jobs, lots of flexible kind of day jobs, and you can find jobs that are in creative industries. There&#8217;s teaching art classes, working in a gallery\u2014that kind of thing\u2014so that you can align your passion with your day job in some regards. And depending on your situation, you&#8217;ll be seeking out different things like maybe it&#8217;s something with flexible hours, something in retail or hospitality that allows you to shift your schedule around to make room for your art.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Casual employment has always been popular among artists. Yeah. And I think the reason is, if you are in a job that is closely related to what you do, then that can be a challenge for lots of different reasons. But if you&#8217;re working at a restaurant and you&#8217;ve got casual hours, you can say no to things. You can take that week off because you&#8217;re going on tour, or you can not take the Friday shift because you&#8217;ve got a gig that night, or whatever it is. Yeah. And of course, definitely in post-Covid times, that&#8217;s been quite perilous because a lot of those jobs\u2014and a lot of those jobs\u2014have disappeared.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah. It&#8217;s like the gigging jobs disappeared; at the same time, all the hospitality jobs did as well, so yeah. Both of your income streams\u2014yeah, exactly\u2014both died. Yeah.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Both took a massive hit.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> I had a gig a couple of weeks ago at a winery\u2014the first time I played there, there were loads of people, a great vibe. Yeah, loads of people. The next time I played there it was a completely different scene, and so they&#8217;ve had to now cut back on how many times they have the cellar door open because of the unpredictability and uncertainty.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n  \n  <p>So yeah, times have definitely changed in that way, especially.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Yeah. The out-and-about, physical people going out\u2014I think our online lives are demanding that our real lives do. But just working out the habits and the movement of people is just not as easy as it used to be. No.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Definitely not. I know it&#8217;s a challenge for many industries there. I was thinking about a lecturer of mine, actually, who is an incredible writer and a first-class sort of academic. She&#8217;s a PhD and she&#8217;s got a family. But being an academic is another industry that is really hard to work in. Your work is so incredibly hard to get to the absolute top of your field and then get employed by one of the greatest universities in the country or whatever, and then the wages are rubbish and the conditions are terrible because you&#8217;re employed for a semester and then you have no idea whether you&#8217;re gonna be employed again the next semester. And there are these big gaps in between for people just trying to pay the mortgage and so on\u2014it can be really difficult.<\/p>\n  \n  <p>And she was talking to me about thinking about working in a bookstore because you go, &#8220;There&#8217;s a fit.&#8221; She&#8217;s a writer; she&#8217;d be great. But you know what? Even working in a bookstore\u2014she obviously had the qualifications and then some\u2014but working as a bookseller at the moment, you pretty much have to have a master&#8217;s degree at the least to be able to do that. And that&#8217;s then just getting retail sort of wages and conditions like casual work, so\u2026<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> To work at a bookstore just behind the counter\u2014yeah. To sell a book, to sell the latest cooking book or whatever, you need to have a master&#8217;s.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Definitely in, like, the readings bookstore\u2014the sort of bookstores that rate themselves as &#8220;bookstore bookstores.&#8221; Yes, absolutely. Maybe the QBD&#8217;s and so on, maybe not so much, but yeah, it&#8217;s, and if you, wanted, they wanted the jobs the same. And if you wanted more of a role\u2014being able to, for instance, book an author to do their book launch at your bookstore or figure out how much shelf space you want to give to certain genres or certain books\u2014yeah, you definitely need all kinds of backgrounds in marketing plus literature, this, that, and the other. So yeah, it&#8217;s ridiculously competitive and it&#8217;s great because there are some beautiful bookstores out there and very well-read booksellers who know a lot.<\/p>\n  \n  <p>But yeah, it&#8217;s just such a competitive space, like how do artists make a living? And this particular woman that I was talking to, she was like, &#8220;I could try to go for this retail job to get a retail wage to try to keep food on the table in between all the demands of academic life.&#8221; But surely I&#8217;ve worked this hard and, given enough, sacrificed enough to be the artist that I am for more than a retail job. Surely there&#8217;s more out there for me than that.&#8221; That was where she was just like, &#8220;I just don&#8217;t think I can do this. It&#8217;s just too\u2014it&#8217;s too depressing.&#8221;<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> There&#8217;s a bookstore in the UK that you can apply to, to go there, live there for a month and run it. Can we do that? It looks really appealing, but I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;d care whether you had a master&#8217;s or not, but still the same. Yeah, same\u2014the same problem exists for her, that she&#8217;s super overqualified to be working in retail.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> What&#8217;s also interesting in that is we certainly view academics with prestige. If you hear that someone&#8217;s a lecturer at Melbourne Uni, no one is frowning upon that. Everyone&#8217;s going, &#8220;Wow, you must really know your stuff.&#8221; Yeah. So you just wouldn&#8217;t think that was a position that held so much uncertainty. It&#8217;s\u2026<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> \u2026and be so financially unstable.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yep. Yeah.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> That is quite shocking.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> It is, yeah. It&#8217;s really shocking and very difficult and, yeah, I\u2026<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> \u2026and it&#8217;s not new.<\/p>\n  \n  <p><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> No, it&#8217;s not new. I was very fortunate to know a number of incredible writers and academics while I was studying at Melbourne Uni. And yeah, I think this is a thing you want people like that to be free to just keep going\u2014what more can you explore? What more knowledge can you bring? What other sort of endeavors can you do because you&#8217;re so good at what you do. You want them to be able to just continue to make that contribution to the arts or to their area of academia, I suppose\u2014&#8217;cause it&#8217;s obviously not just artistic academics; it&#8217;s across the board, the sciences and everything. You want them to be able to keep on contributing. But if they&#8217;re just going through the summer holidays going, &#8220;Man, we don&#8217;t even know if we&#8217;ve got a job next semester; we can&#8217;t take anything else on because we&#8217;ve gotta be free for this opportunity,&#8221; but yet we&#8217;ve still gotta try to take the kids camping. We can&#8217;t even afford it. Yeah, it just gets hard. It&#8217;s very hard. So anyway, that&#8217;s a\u2014yeah, so let&#8217;s just finish it there.\n  <\/p>\n<\/section>\n\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> Yeah.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> And that&#8217;s probably what it is: the life of an artist is continually trying to work out how to exist in the ebb and flow in a way that fulfills you\u2014creatively, spiritually, emotionally, and mentally\u2014so that you&#8217;re better off and the world benefits from your contribution. That&#8217;s part of the challenge and beauty of a life devoted to creative endeavor.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> I think so. And I think that&#8217;s part of the nature of being an artist: always looking ahead to the next project, the next idea. And perhaps we&#8217;re always hoping that life will be better when we make more money doing what we love, or when we get that ideal job that fits. But let&#8217;s just take a moment or, I can just move to the\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Woods in a little log cabin and\u2014oh, that sounds be self-sufficient and, yeah. But as long as I&#8217;ve got a really super good internet connection\u2014oh, we should end it there. We&#8217;ll leave it there. And thank\u2026<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Breallyn:<\/span> You for listening.<\/p>\n    <p class=\"line\"><span class=\"speaker\">Lyndon:<\/span> Thank you for listening. You can visit our Patreon page and become a patron at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/painintheartslife\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">patreon.com\/painintheartslife<\/a>, or you can visit our website at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.painintheartslife.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">www.painintheartslife.com<\/a> to learn more about the show. <\/p>\n    \n  <\/section>\n\n  <footer>\n\n    <p>Join our community on Patreon: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/painintheartslife\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">patreon.com\/painintheartslife<\/a><\/p>\n  <\/footer>\n<\/body>\n<\/html><p>Want more deep dives into the creative process? Our Patreon supporters <a href=\"https:\/\/patreon.com\/painintheartslife\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">get exclusive episodes and behind-the-scenes content.<\/a> <\/p><a href=\"https:\/\/patreon.com\/painintheartslife\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow\" class=\"patreon-button\">\n    \ud83c\udfa7 Click for Bonus Podcasts\n<\/a>\n\n<style>\n  .patreon-button {\n    display: inline-block;\n    background-color: var(--wp--preset--color--primary, #FF424D); \/* Uses Podcasty's primary color *\/\n    color: var(--wp--preset--color--contrast, #ffffff); \/* Theme contrast color *\/\n    font-family: var(--wp--preset--font-family--body, sans-serif);\n    font-size: 16px; \/* Slightly smaller font *\/\n    font-weight: 600;\n    text-align: center;\n    padding: 10px 18px; \/* Reduced padding *\/\n    border-radius: 6px;\n    text-decoration: none;\n    transition: background-color 0.3s ease-in-out, transform 0.2s ease-in-out;\n    box-shadow: 0px 3px 5px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.1);\n  }\n\n  .patreon-button:hover {\n    background-color: var(--wp--preset--color--secondary, #e63e48);\n    transform: translateY(-2px);\n  }\n\n  .patreon-button:active {\n    transform: translateY(0);\n  }\n<\/style><p><\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>April 1, 2025&nbsp;\u00b7&nbsp;Episode 1450 Min, 43 Sec Summary Is turning your art into a business the dream\u2014or the fastest way to kill your creativity? In this episode, Lyndon and Brea talk about what it means to build a sustainable creative business while staying true to the craft. From the pressure to monetize everything to the guilt of doing unpaid creative work, they wrestle with the&#8230; <\/p>\n<p class=\"more\"> <a class=\"more-link\" href=\"https:\/\/paininthearts.life\/index.php\/transcript\/ep-14-the-artist-hustle-how-to-make-money-from-art-without-losing-your-passion\/\">Read More<\/a> <\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"template":"","categories":[62],"class_list":["post-6521","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry","category-the-business-of-creativity","is-cat-link-regular"],"featured_image_url":[],"post_author":"","assigned_categories":"The Business of Creativity","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/paininthearts.life\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/transcript\/6521","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/paininthearts.life\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/transcript"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/paininthearts.life\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/transcript"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/paininthearts.life\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6521"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/paininthearts.life\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6521"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}