February 23, 2025 · Episode 8
46 Min, 44 Sec

Summary

This week on Pain in the Arts, Brea and Lyndon take a step back to reflect on how the podcast came to be, the creative projects driving it, and why making space for a creative life feels more important than ever.

They discuss:
Launching their subscriber-only podcasts—Brea’s In Search of Home and Lyndon’s Echoes of Home.
The push to prioritize Brea’s novel No Word for Home and the personal significance behind the story.
Composing a soundtrack that does justice to the book’s themes and characters.
The challenge of balancing a creative life, family life, and financial realities.

Lyndon also shares a few realisations about the weight of this project, while Brea explains why she decided to pull a reading from the episode at the last minute.

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Transcript

Lyndon: Yes, remote’s the king. What would we do without remote controls?

Brea: Use our legs a little more often.

Lyndon: Well, we have been deep in discussion about Patreon, essentially. And, uh, we may get into that a little bit today on the podcast, but it did mean that we ran over time and now we’ve left very little time to actually podcast, do the main thing, but it had to be done. And, uh, it’s been a super busy week. I hate telling people that I’m busy. It’s like a, I don’t know, it’s a social norm. It’s also such a hangover from when I was entering into the workforce, I say, tongue in cheek, laughingly. Entering into, well, leaving school to be a musician and feeling like everyone thought I was a bum.

And so I, anytime anyone would ask how things were, I’d always go, Oh yeah, I’m really busy. And I think in my mind I was like, I was busy, I was practicing guitar a lot and that was busy, but like there was that definite sense of pressure of saying that I was busy because I didn’t want people to think bludger, as we say in Australia. So.

Brea: Yeah. I think it’s definitely been a thing where there’s some kind of status associated with being busy and having so much on your plate and having to do so many things and so many people relying on you and it’s just, everyone’s got stuff to do. I don’t care anymore. I know I’m pretty busy.

Lyndon: Well, I know my mind races and it keeps me up at night.

Brea: I know that we haven’t had a proper holiday in two decades. We’re trying to get the boat finished.

Lyndon: This doesn’t make us sound like we’re loaded.

Brea: Our boat is nearly ready for the season.

Lyndon: Although to put it in context, it looks like it’s going to cost us 700 to get a new axle, springs, wheels, tyres, and get some welding done. And that’s just, yeah, it’s just for the trailer that the tinny sits on and we don’t have the money to do that.

Brea: Yeah. I can’t wait for this boat. It’s so exciting because this is a family heirloom. It’s been in my family for a long time. Yeah. This is a really special boat that my grandfather purchased essentially for my brother and my cousin and they had a great time using it. And then my other cousin got a lot of use out of it and now I’m the fourth cousin to sort of wanna get into it and take it out a little bit. And we are finally at a position where that might be a reality in terms of don’t have, we don’t have four kids now we’re trying to squeeze into the boat there.

Well, we, I mean we still have those four kids, but we still have four kids. Yeah. They don’t all wanna come out on weekend Little fishing trips with us. But we are hopeful that Birdie will be able to come in the boat for little excursions and that that’ll be something we’ll be able to build up in her repertoire of activities and and that we can take the boys out as well and yeah, take all of our other ones out, our other three kids out when, They want to, or if they would like to, or sometimes even just you and me out on the boat together.

Balancing Boating Dreams and Family Logistics

Lyndon: Well, that’s what I was thinking. Like a date. I was talking to a mate of mine this week and I told him that I’d worked out it was an hour and 15 minutes door to door or door to boat ramp for us to get to the Goulburn River. Or an offshoot of the Goulburn River. I can’t remember what it’s called.

Brea: Does that include picking up the boat?

Lyndon: No. Well, he was pointing that out. Right. I was going to say, I think. I said on a day that we have two carers, so covering off six hours of care, we would be able to leave, pick up the boat from where it’s stored at your brother’s. So that would add in a perfect world, that would add half an hour to the trip.

Brea: Mm hmm.

Lyndon: And it’s on the way, so that’s good. So that’s half an hour there, half an hour back. That’s an hour plus the hour and a quarter to get to the ramp, assuming no one’s there that we’ve got to wait for. So that’s two and a half hours plus that hour to pick up and drop off. So that’s three and a half hours basically just to get there and back, which leaves us two and a half hours of nothing going wrong on the river.

And we’ve got enough petrol, I think, in the tank on board to take us, is it four kilometers upstream? And your brother was saying go upstream, that way if you’ve miscalculated and you run out, you can float back to the ramp. So, so I think that’s I know you’ve got, it sounds tight.

Brea: We are in winery country though, up there, so we can motor to Mitchelton Wines.

Lyndon: Yeah. Get off at the, it’s actually what your brother did to get his wife into going boating with him was, they stopped off at the winery and had lunch there or something.

Brea: I mean, it’s just sounds absolute bliss, doesn’t it? Hop in the boat, travel up the river a bit, hop off at the jetty to walk up to the winery, have lunch, beautiful scenery, back into the boat. I mean, that doesn’t get much better does it?

Lyndon: Like, I know, except that in what the calculations I just had, we’d probably, we’d be able to get to, if everything went to plan and went smoothly, we’d be able to get to the winery’s jetty and then turn around and go back. Yeah. Unless the care and medicine.

Brea: Occasionally we’re going to need further care on those days. Or, how about this? We restructure our week and do it on a weekday.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah, we could do it on a weekday. That’s possible,

Brea: because Birdie’s at school, so, she’s got her school time.

Lyndon: Okay, we’d have to leave early. I guess we wouldn’t be encountering anyone else using the ramp then either.

Brea: Not as much, yeah, and there’s just more. I don’t know, more leeway, I suppose, especially if we organise a carer for school pickup. So yeah, just to make sure, because I think that for me, the idea of something going wrong and all of a sudden I can’t be back in time for her, that’s, that’s the anxiety, like, I mean, honestly, that gives me more anxiety than the thought of like the boat having a hole and us going down in the middle of the Goulburn, like that I can handle. But being late to get back to Birdie, that’s the stress.

Adventures, Mishaps, and a Broken Tooth

Lyndon: I think the, uh,

Brea: Everything else is just the adventure that comes.

Lyndon: I’m sure the records will show. I mean, I’m not a boater. Remember What About Bob? I’m a sailor, I sail, I sail. He’s just this, he’s strapped to the mast. Strapped to the mast. I think in, I say, I’m not a, I’m not a yachtsman or I’m not a boater, but I do believe the records will show the amount of aluminium boats that have had a hole in the bottom on the Goulburn River and sunk or even had a hole in the bottom at all is probably zero.

Brea: Okay. Well, there we go. There’s probably other. I mean, like there’s no other things. It’s not like it’s the ocean and we’re going to encounter bad weather.

Lyndon: No. Well, the last time I went in a tinny on the ocean, it was a perfectly calm glassy day. I got seasick. I felt so ill. On the bay.

Brea: So a sailor, you’re really not.

Lyndon: I mean, the bay is big. It can get choppy out there, but uh, yeah. It was pretty peaceful. And I did not feel good. I went, I tried to hop on a swing last week. Just to show our daughter

Brea: we’ve just updated our park just up at the corner there.

Lyndon: Yeah, so there was a bit of a hole in the fence so we went through. And she was showing interest in the slide and she went down the slide and said, How about the swing? And she was like, nah. And I said, come on, I’ll have a little go. And I had half a swing and was like, Oh, I’m off. I did not like it at all.

Brea: It’s funny because she went to Funfields with a carer on Sunday. And the carer came back and said, Oh my goodness, she is an absolute daredevil. She wanted to go on every big slide, every big water slide, every ride, all the ones that fling you up in the air and spin you around and dump you back down. She was just laughing and having the best time. So when she said no to the swing, she was probably just saying, no, that looks a little lame, dad. It’s not that I don’t want to be on that.

Lyndon: Yeah. Well, She certainly has no sense, really, of danger.

Brea: No, no real fear.

Lyndon: So yeah, she just, it wasn’t that. I think she just had enough of being in the playground that we weren’t actually meant to be in it.

Brea: I know, respect the fence, it’ll be open soon. She was respecting the law. Hoping that they’ve got it fenced off because they’re waiting for some, for the nice landscaping to actually grow, give it a chance. So, soon. So we haven’t had a,

Lyndon: so not a busy week. Let’s just say we’ve had an eventful week. I broke my tooth. That was, that was fun. In a meeting, no less.

Brea: Say in a fight. Sounds better.

Lyndon: Broke my tooth and, uh, having a coffee with a couple of other people and, and, uh, one of them said, is that it there on your lap? And I had to say, ah, yes. And then I said, does it, can you tell that I’ve broken my tooth? And I smiled at her and she said, uh, I’m sorry. Yes, you can.

Brea: Well, it is the front tooth. No hiding it. Yeah. But now it’s repaired. That was fun.

Lyndon: That was repaired. You can smile once again. Anyway, let’s get on with the show.

Introducing Pain in the Arts: The Origin Story

Brea: Welcome to Pain in the Arts, the podcast where the pursuit of meaningful art meets the unpredictable demands of real life. I’m Breallyn.

Lyndon: And I am Lyndon. Welcome to the show. Well, that was very professionally done.

Brea: Thank you.

Lyndon: Well done.

Brea: I did read it off the script.

Lyndon: I know. It’s like the only thing we have a script for. You’d think we would learn it off by heart, but whatever.

Brea: We don’t want to stumble over it.

Lyndon: No. No. So today is kind of going to be a little bit of an origin story, I think.

Brea: Okay.

Lyndon: I think loose, loosely. The reason being is that this week we’ve both recorded our subscriber only podcasts.

Brea: We have.

Lyndon: And so yours is called In Search of Home.

Brea: Yep.

Lyndon: And mine is called Echoes of Home.

Brea: Yep.

Lyndon: So that was. Uh, that was a really good thing. Monumental. Yeah. It wasn’t more monumental. It was a good thing to get underway.

Brea: It was, yeah. Great to start it.

Lyndon: Yeah. And so it kind of got, it got me thinking about where, we’ve got a few episodes now under our belt of pain in the arts, and it was probably just timely, I think, to talk more about the vision, I guess, that we’ve had for this. And I say that sort of loosely because we’re more than aware of how this is sort of evolving and playing out in real time.

I think when we were recording your podcast, you were talking about gathering all your notes and finding remnants of scripts and how, half your work so far is still, lost on a hard drive sitting under our table. And we don’t even know if it can be recovered because, uh, we could never reboot that computer. So it really is like, the evolution of something.

So we have an idea of how we think we can sort of conduct our lives as writers and, well, as a writer and as a musician living together and we have an idea based on the last, say, decade or more of how things have sort of panned out and the trials and tribulations and things we’ve had to duck and weave around how those things have played out.

So we, we can have a sense of planning, knowing that knowing that, uh, there’s always curve balls, but also just also knowing that with the creative processes that we subject ourselves to, uh, you, you just have to start, you don’t always know how things are going to go.

And I guess this week has sort of been like that in a good way. Yeah. Apart from my tooth. Yeah, I thought timely to talk about it. Okay. And we have also mentioned a lot, I think, doing the work so what we’re referring to when we talk about the work is the art that we want to bring to life. So it’s the books, the music, the novels, the songs. It’s our ideas that need exploring and expressing and, I’m too old to stop now. You know what I mean?

Prioritizing Creative Work Amidst Family Life

Brea: Well, we, when we first, actually, when we first got together, which I was 16, you were 19. Yeah, I was 19. You were 19. Yeah. And it’s, it’s been a part of our relationship since then. It’s obviously been a part of each of our lives as we’ve been growing up, like the things that we love most. And I can’t actually imagine what a point at which we go, you know what, that’s it, that’s enough. We’re tired of what this does to us. We’re poor. We’re unstructured.

Lyndon: You’re really selling the dream.

Brea: But you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s too ingrained in who we are. Like, even with all of the pain in the arts, literally, that we go through, it’s yeah, it’s just too much a part of who we are to, to not be a part of our daily lives, I suppose.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. So many things were coming up for me when you were talking about that. I’ve got to be kind to myself. So I’m going to ignore all those intrusive thoughts. So if we could just like, look at the overall reason that we started the Painting the Arts podcast was that we were now working together in the same space. Like I was up until last year, really, I was out every day.

Brea: Yep. So you had the coffee van, you were doing daily. You had going to the other studio where you were working on other people’s projects most of the time. So definitely, leaving in the morning, getting back in the evening. Yeah. Um, yeah. I was sort of working half from home, half from the office yeah, just doing things here and there, yeah.

Lyndon: So we had the opportunity to do something together and not, I wouldn’t say pool our resources, but just looking towards the future and And what things, you know what it was? It’s a re calibration.

Brea: Yeah. And

Lyndon: a lot of people did that during the pandemic.

Brea: Yeah.

Lyndon: Really just taking stock of what they really wanted to do. And something that you obviously were in the middle of working on was your novel.

Brea: Yeah.

Lyndon: And so a big part of the reason of starting this podcast was to afford yourself the time to reconnect with that.

Brea: Yeah. And to just kind of really push it right up in the list of priorities. I mean, I think in general, mums put themselves last in the list of priorities. It’s something that I’ve had to try to not do that so much anymore and prioritise my health a bit more and things like that. But prioritising, getting a creative project done that, that obviously involves a huge amount of commitment to it and no certainty about whether it’ll ever become a commercial sort of success or anything.

You know, It does, that’s a, that’s a really big thing to be able to put that up, really quite up high in the list of priorities in a family and in a busy household like we have. So yeah, this has been um, something we’ve talked about for a long time is prioritising each of our individual artistic endeavours. And yeah, the, at the moment it’s happening a little bit more.

Lyndon: Yeah. And it’s, and unlike the the, the wife novelist in the movie, The Wife, which spoiler alert, turn, turn this off now, if you want to watch the movie and you don’t want to, you don’t want it spoiled, but the, the husband wins the Nobel prize for literature, but it was the wife that wrote everything.

Brea: But she was pretty much been his ghostwriter for his whole entire career.

Lyndon: Yeah. For his whole career. And he’s written like bestselling books and things. And so she was in the room writing eight hours a day, didn’t see the kids. That’s certainly not been how you’ve approached family life and, and art and, uh, and writing. You’ve certainly had, it’s been sort of squished out of you in that sense. and I’ve found the same thing with a lot of my musical aspirations and

Brea: It’s quite hard to prioritize them when you feel like it’s a, it’s a bit of an indulgence or it’s a bit of like something that you’re not sure what the outcome of it will be. And there’s much more pressing needs, obviously with, with children and, you know, just the general day to day things of life. But you know, also even when you sort of try to think like a responsible adult and like go, how are we gonna, yeah. Pay for everything.

So obviously there’s, the element of trying to work for a set amount of money that you can physically see and you know when you’re gonna get it. Like, that’s huge when you’re raising a family, obviously. So, yeah, it has been difficult to prioritize those creative projects and as you’re saying, they get squished into the little margins. But we don’t want them squished in there anymore. We’d like them to be given a bit more free reign.

Collaboration, Soundtracks, and Emotional Realizations

Lyndon: Yeah. And so I had, um, saw my role really as, well, I’ve got the studio here. I could record your podcast if you’re going to talk about the writing of the novel and so on, then I could, I’ll engineer it and produce it for you. That’s what I was thinking I’ll do. Anyway, as time’s gone on, it’s sort of morphed into that there’ll be an audiobook. And so how about, I also, do the music. So write the score or write the soundtrack for that. And I’ve never written a soundtrack before. Yeah. So I thought that’d be interesting.

And so that’s sort of how this is all developed because we then started talking about, well, what will this whole thing look like if we’re working together and how’s it going to look with you writing the book? what’s the access to the podcast going to look like? And so on.

So that brings us to this week where we recorded your podcast, uh, which is available for members on Patreon. So in that podcast, you read some passages of your book. Now, we’ll get onto that a little bit more, So you’re reading the thoughts of Audrey. And was it the thoughts of Tom?

Brea: I think actually, I did that in your podcast and then I’ve said, take it out.

Lyndon: Was that in my podcast? Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Was it really? Yeah. Okay.

Brea: Cause that’s not actually something that I’ve wanted to do right now,

Lyndon: So we recorded it, we recorded the first episode of my subscriber only show, Echoes of Home. And we were discussing how I might approach the music. That’s right. We’re having a, I sprung on you a live brainstorming session. That’s what the first episode was. Uh, because I needed to understand the characters, the book. And I just thought, well, I might as well get you in and we’ll talk about it. Because it was the very first step for me in hearing about, the book and, and so on. And, oh, and also hearing about your ideas that you may or may not have had for the music. Yeah. Which I didn’t expect that you would have, as an author, actually had given the music any thought.

Brea: I had not. Whatsoever, really. No, I hadn’t thought of the music. I had thought about the characters, obviously a lot. And I can give you a lot of, just information that will then inform how you develop the soundtrack and develop the sounds for those characters.

Lyndon: Well, what I wasn’t prepared for was the emotional upheaval just from what you read. And I realized that I’ve been like so caught up in the development of this podcast, which has been, a lot, a lot of work over the past few months. And the practicalities, the planning, covering off all of the tech side of things creating the artwork, putting the website together, all of that sort of stuff.

So when we’re recording this week, I sort of was a bit blindsided or I wasn’t prepared for the power of the written word if that makes sense. And in that moment, I had a number of realizations. And I should also mention that, yeah, after, after we recorded it, I think maybe the next day you said you asked me to remove what you read.

Brea: Yeah. I, I’d sort of started to, get into the conversation, obviously, like, let’s brainstorm about the soundtrack, like that’s really, just so exciting and talking about these characters that live in my mind. Yeah, great stuff. And so I’d started to, as I was talking about the characters, go, Oh, let me give you an example. Here’s some, some of what their words are and the tone of voice that they each use and the way I develop those different tones of voice, the different techniques I use and how I’ve developed that over time. Like I could go on and on. And obviously I did a little bit in the, in the podcast about the soundtrack.

Lyndon: Yeah, but it wasn’t that stuff. It was when you were reading the, the actual transcript or what would you call it? Is it?

Brea: It’s my manuscript. Manuscript. Yeah, I call it a manuscript before.

Lyndon: So when you’re reading from the manuscript, that’s what I’m talking about. Like, cause that, yeah, it was so, I mean, when you have like this, would you call it an epiphany and you kind of go, Oh, well, obviously,

Brea: like, yeah,

Lyndon: it was a bit, it was one of those sort of moments where, yeah, I mean, you could talk about the processes and, like you just mentioned, and it’s, I mean, I, I, I find that interesting. But it, it was the actual, the words, I guess, that you’d settled on and that you were reading where the power was. Yeah. And so this, this is what, this is what I realized.

Well, I suddenly felt a greater sense of responsibility for the music. So, I, I think I probably am a um, a closet perfectionist. So like, I was always going to approach the music with particular ideas and standards in mind, but that’s different to sort of feeling like, Oh, like these words can stand alone. They don’t need the music. Yeah.

So yes, I felt a greater sense of responsibility for that. I also felt that, that it’s going to be a very important book. Which I think I sort of knew, I suspected it would be, but I think, I think it really is. The other thing, I’ve got a few points here that I realized, and actually that’s what I was saying before was the next day when you came in and you said that I think you said I’ve made an error. I shouldn’t have read those things. And we hadn’t spoken about it.

Brea: No, it wasn’t a planned thing to do in the podcast.

Lyndon: afterwards. You just came in and said and I think, yeah, I obviously hadn’t started editing, but you’d said uh, yeah, I’ve made an error. I think I need to remove what I read out. and. you probably said why, but immediately when you said it, I thought, yeah, I have to remove it. And I think because of, for me, I just thought cause I’d already been contemplating like what it all meant, I suppose. And I just felt like this immediate sense of, Oh, this is actually really big. And what, what was your reason though for removing it?

Brea: It was, I just felt that I had put it into a conversation where when people are hearing this for the first time and, or reading it for the first time, it deserves the right context of the whole book together, or me setting the scene rather than me just kind of pulling parts of it out as an example. And look, down the line maybe for instance, if somebody’s, I don’t know, talking about it for a book club, they would, read out a section or whatever.

But, it doesn’t matter. At that point, the book would exist in its own form and you know, have the solidity of its own context around it where I, I felt that I’d put it out there in, this podcast episode without those proper surrounds that it deserves. Um, So yeah, I, I just kind of thought, no, no, it, it didn’t. it’s too soon for that to just exist, this early in the game in this podcast. So yeah, that’s why I’d said it, we need to take those parts out.

The Power of Words and Giving Voice

Lyndon: Yeah. cause I was thinking about removing them

Brea: and,

Lyndon: uh, and it was trying to work out why I thought they should be removed. So yeah, so since then in the past couple of days is when I’ve put down some of these thoughts trying to work out my feelings that came up, I guess.

Brea: Which I’m very interested in hearing. Yes, well you would be. Yeah.

Lyndon: Um, I told you I couldn’t tell you about this before we started recording.

Brea: I know. It’s fun, isn’t it? It is. It’s actually really great.

Lyndon: The other thing I realized is that you’re the real talent in the family, which I knew. This is, it’s, it’s funny that it’s like none of these things I didn’t already know. It’s just, sometimes it’s just context. It’s timing. It’s a whole bunch of different things. And I was watching this week the making of Luck and Strange, which is the new Dave Gilmore album.

Brea: Oh, cool.

Lyndon: Yeah, so. Oh, wow. You’ve probably been a bigger Pink Floyd fan than me.

Brea: I love Pink Floyd, yeah.

Lyndon: of your brother. Yep. Who was a few years older than you. Yep. And, I mean, I, I do love Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd as well, but I love it as in there’s certain songs that I love and I love, there’s nerdy aspects of it that I like,

Brea: I think I actually still have a copy of The Wall in tape form because my brother either gave it to me or I borrowed it and then just never returned it when he moved out of home. Or I don’t know, but that thing, I listened to that over and over. It was the double album, so, and it was quite long. And I just listened to that on repeat. I reckon for years. I could probably sing you really badly. Every lyric in

Lyndon: every guitar line. You could, but you’ll

Brea: change key five times. Yeah. And so that’s when I disagree that I’m the real talent in the family.

Lyndon: Well, I might, I might get this wrong. I think his wife’s name is Molly.

Brea: Mm.

Lyndon: This is Dave Gilmour, isn’t it? Dave Gilmour’s wife. I think she wrote lyrics on the Division Bell. I know she’s a poet. Yeah. She might be a photographer and like she’s, so she’s clearly into the arts and, and I imagine, she’s got her own career and whatnot, but There’s no denying in that relationship that Dave Gilmore is the public star. You know what I mean? Like he’s the, he’s um, the legend. so I was watching that and I felt like household name, I felt like Molly as in, you know what I mean?

Brea: Like, I felt like ah, yeah. Your, oh, as in you felt like Molly ?

Lyndon: Yeah. Like, not, not to, um. reduce her role in any way because I think, it sounds like, and like when you hear her talk, it just sounds like, she’s a a great person who’s, had an amazing life and And he’s talented.

Brea: And he’s contributed to incredible albums. And yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, yeah. It’s amazing. Actually, something funny that is in an interview where he said that during lockdown, the whole family must be musical. And so they became the Von Trapped family, which I thought was brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I was like, you know what, if, if your book becomes massive, I’d be, that I’d be perfectly comfortable and happy with that. And I would sort of think, you know what, all rightly so. Anyway, so that was my third point. So that, I think it will be a very important book.

Brea: Well, thank you. Cause I, I know that you don’t tend to give

Lyndon: I have a lot of thoughts and I don’t say them.

Brea: Yeah, but you never. Like, you never say something is good unless you actually think it.

Lyndon: That’s true. You never ever do. I have to bite my tongue a lot. Hold my tongue. Yeah. In certain situations.

Brea: I’ve never known you to actually lie about something that you, that you think has actually got merit. So, yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Brea: Which is good. And I, I’m glad. I don’t want to ever, hear you puffing me up when I’m not. Yeah. Bye bye. And I wouldn’t really know if it meant anything.

Lyndon: And, and I realised that I’m close to this, to the topics that the book covers and whatnot. So I imagine there’s some sort of bias, except I wonder how much that actually comes into play when when something kind of moves you emotionally. Like, I wonder how much the actual thinking brain is involved, if that makes sense.

Brea: I think your emotions speak before your brain can, yeah, can, yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. And I think if it was just the other, if it was just like, Oh yeah, like I understand what you’re writing about. If it was sort of coming from that, then it wouldn’t have taken me, so long to process. Because literally when we say that you read out parts of the manuscript, it was probably, seven sentences.

Brea: Yeah, there was a short part from one of the, well, both of the main characters, Tom and Audrey. Tom’s more wordy and Audrey’s words are very scant, but quite meaningful.

Lyndon: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And remember too, like I just said, Hey, I’m doing, I’m going to record my first episode of Echoes of Home. Jump on the mic because I want to know what you’re thinking because I’m trying to work out a starting point for the music It’s a very, very terrible explanation of the, uh.

Brea: Yeah, but you do, yeah, I understand you need to get some context and some beginning points so that then it can kind of percolate and, eventuate into some musical ideas. Right. Yeah. So yeah. That are relevant and, right for the context.

Lyndon: Yeah. So really prepared for anything other than just that kind of a discussion. So the other thing was the power of words and how important it is that they exist. Yeah. And I, and so I was hoping that the readers have the same palpable, visceral reaction that I had when hearing you put into words things that cannot be said. Mm. So I think that was the other thing is because the character Audrey is non verbal.

Brea: Yeah.

Lyndon: So, I mean, if you think about the importance of words and then you think about someone who hasn’t got any or many words and then to give like a voice to that.

Brea: Yeah. It’s and this is, I suppose where I feel very emotional about it too, because throughout all of my writing and all of the study that I did, uh, doing a master’s degree. The central question of my work and my study is because I have a non verbal or non speaking daughter. Just how hard that would be for her to present in the world, and for her to interact with the world. Because, for me, words are one of the most important things. And my daughter doesn’t have access to them.

And, I’ve found that in every single piece of my writing, it almost doesn’t matter what it is, probably apart from, work I do for business clients and so on, but any piece of creative writing, even almost all of my journal entries, anytime I write anything, it often always comes back to Birdie, and just this internal conflict I feel of having her be able to have a voice in the world when she has very few words at all.

And I feel like as somebody who, who loves words and who has made it kind of my lifelong, joy to be reading and um, to be writing and, and the thing that I dig into most and give my most, I guess I’ve given a lot of my time to it, but my most dedication to as well, you know, is to find the right words for the right situations and wrapping my thoughts in the words that, not only describe something, but give a flavor to it and, an emotion to it and so on. There’s just so many layers of what words can do. And so I feel like there’s an obligation

Lyndon: or Responsibility.

Brea: Yeah, responsibility, or just a calling in some way that, uh, I am an interface for Birdie in her daily life. But more than that to give words to her character and who she is underneath. So it’s more than just, what does she need to survive? It’s, how does she experience this incredible life? And how does she experience it in such a different way to people around her?

Because she really does, and, and the things that she shows us about living and about the world that we’re in are really quite extraordinary. and you miss them if you’re not watching. And so many people don’t get to see the way that, she goes through this world. So, Yeah, don’t ask me deep questions.

Lyndon: I didn’t, I made a statement about my reaction to, to hearing, the words of someone who can’t speak. So there was no question there.

Brea: Well, yeah, but now I’ve explained what goes on in my head and why I write.

Lyndon: But the, and the conflict is also the fact that, like you say, there’s that extraordinary side to her that’s easily missed. And yet, on, the other side of that sword is a very complicated Hard to manage child. Yeah. That, that we’ll be caring for, for the rest of our lives, yeah. For like, God willing. Yeah. So yeah. I mean, it is, There is that conflict. It’s it, yeah.

Brea: Mm-Hmm. .

Lyndon: But and you you have to go.

Brea: I’ve got to go pick her up. She’s waiting. Yeah.

The Novel’s Importance and the Role of Music

Lyndon: Before you go, my fifth point, so my last point in that realization is that the book has to exist. It has to be written and it doesn’t, and it doesn’t need the music. So another thing that I knew, like it doesn’t need the music, the book, when it comes out as a book, isn’t going to have a, a CD in there or whatever. It’s not going to have like a QR code to spot. Actually, that’s a good idea. Maybe it will have a QR code to Spotify, but it doesn’t need the music. And so it itself is bigger than the idea of doing this collaboration.

So I thought that that was sort of like the, that was the, another big take away where I thought, okay, this is like me doing the music and me producing your podcast is a way of, making it happen, supporting you, making sure that, time is given for you to write the novel. But now I’ve sort of seen that, oh, the novel doesn’t, It really doesn’t need me, like, it doesn’t.

But at the same time, the music now that I’m going to be writing for the soundtrack, I suddenly am like, okay, it has to, it has to be as unique as the characters and it has to be, it has to do justice to, to the writing and to the ideas behind the writing. So it’s, it’s just created this, and rightly so, a greater sense of responsibility. And I know duty is probably not the right word. It’s just, yeah, something else that I need to navigate.

And it really is, unfortunately, playing into the bad parts of my perfectionism that stops me from doing anything. Cause anytime I get an idea, I go, Oh, it, it’s not, it’s not right. It’s not good enough. It’s not like, whereas maybe last week, I would have run with something a lot sooner. Whereas now I’m like, no, I know, I can just feel that it’s not the right thing to do. So, anyway,

Brea: Well, hopefully it will, and, and perhaps you know, I can give you some further insights into the, the characters by reading some more for your, your ears only or, or reading it. But you know, like, I, I hope that the music will , do credit, I suppose, to the, the book.

Lyndon: And if, if it’s not right, we pull it. That’s what you’re saying.

Brea: Well, if I didn’t think that you were capable of doing a soundtrack that would sit alongside the book and, be an equal component, then I wouldn’t say yes to it, I suppose. Like, yeah. So I do think that you can

Lyndon: Yeah, but there’s always, I mean, like I said in, I think I was saying in my podcast that, I was treating you like a client, you’ve got every, every right at some point to kind of go, it’s not working, change it. And then right at the end, you could kind of go, you know what, we’re just going to go without the music. And, that was this whole podcast would still be documenting, that my, my demise and my downfall. That’s, uh, that’s. That’s perfectly fine.

Brea: No, I think it’s, I mean, it’s, for you, it’s, it’s one project. Obviously for me, it’s probably the biggest thing I’ve worked on. And it’s I, I definitely feel the, the pressure to get it right, not just as a creative piece in it, a work that I would hope that I can get published. But because I feel that Yeah, I don’t know. It’s not duty. It’s not obligation. But Purpose.

It’s not even that I owe it to Birdie. But it is a sort of purpose. It’s a purposeful thing to give a voice to a character that I am basing off our real life daughter. And I take that really seriously. It’s not a line that I write that I don’t have that in mind. So it’s definitely coming from a very deep place, and I wanted to adjust it to it. And I know that you will as well with the soundtrack.

Lyndon: Hmm. Well, I’m not gonna talk anymore because you really need to go.

Brea: Yeah, I gotta go. Well, thanks for sharing your thoughts and I’m, I’m really glad that you had an emotional response to the to the words on the page.

Lyndon: Well, you wouldn’t have known at the time because I’m a man’s man.

Brea: And we just got on with the show.

Lyndon: Well, I figure stuff out. I deal with my emotions later.

Brea: Like a real man’s man. Yeah. All right. Well, I might let you go and I will maybe sign off.

Lyndon: Wrap it up.

Brea: I’ll wrap it up. Thank you. See you next time, everyone. Bye.

Lyndon: Don’t have an accident on the way. I mean, drive safe. Put your shoes on. Put your thongs on. Your flip flops.

Whoa. Well, that was unexpectedly emotional there for a moment, but that’s fine. As it should be. As it should be. Oh, how do I summarise that? So essentially what started as a collaboration, for the sake of finishing a project, has turned into something much more personal and profound for me. Yeah, and it’s just reminded me that art has the power to reach people in ways that we don’t always understand. And in a way that’s why we’re doing this podcast as well. It’s um, to remind ourselves and anyone listening that, that the work matters and that it’s worth making space for.

Behind the Scenes: Patreon and Subscriber Podcasts

Lyndon: Before we wrap up, We wanted to share something that we’re really excited about. However, Bree’s left the building, so I will be doing it on my own. And, uh, yeah, so as we mentioned we’ve both recorded the first episodes of our individual subscriber only podcasts, and they’re a bit different from this show. They’re, uh, definitely more focused on the day to day of bringing our projects to life. So they’re more personal in that sense.

And yeah, Brea’s documenting the process of writing her novel, No Word for Home. And I’m sharing the journey of composing the music for its audio book. And these shows take you behind the scenes of, uh, building something creative from the ground up. So, If that’s something that you’re interested in, you should head over to our Patreon page. So both of those, podcasts, uh, are on Patreon, and here’s how that all works.

So, as a subscriber, you can listen to the early access episodes and bonus podcasts directly in your favorite podcast app, so there’s no extra hassle. You will need to head over to patreon. com forward slash pain in the arts life. And you just choose your membership level. And then you’ll have access on your favorite podcast App. So, that’s how that all works.

And of course, on the Patreon app itself is where you find some other bonus content. So, you’ll get community chat. you get behind the scenes content, exclusives that’s all online at Patreon or through the Patreon app. Uh, so yeah, very easy. Your support helps keep this whole creative juggernaut going.

Ah, well, I need a drink. Thank you so much for listening and keep creating if you’re a creator and keep supporting the creators if you love the creative arts. see you next week.

Thank you so much for listening. You can subscribe to our show on patreon. com. Pain in the Arts Life is where you find us on Patreon. And, uh, oh, well, you’ll become a patron. Uh, there is a free membership level if, uh, that is something you are interested in. And yeah, you can become part of the community for free. patreon.com/paininthearts.life.

You can also go to our website to find out a little bit more about us and the pain in the arts show. So that is pain in the Arts Life. www.paintinthearts.life And of course, if you listen to us on Apple Podcasts or wherever, give us a, uh, now what do you do on Apple Podcasts? Do you give us a follow? You can follow the show, or you can leave a review. So if you want to do that, that would be also a great way to support what we are doing. www.paintinthearts.life yeah, we appreciate you, and thanks once again.

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