May 5, 2026 · Episode 66
1 Hr, 32 Min, 30 Sec 

Summary

Erik Parker has been a lot of things — guitarist, vocalist, live sound engineer, recording producer, guitar teacher, Nirvana tribute act, Satanic gospel cabaret performer, and teenage busker in the Frankston Mall. He joins us to talk about what a music career actually looks like when the work keeps shifting and expanding: the burnout, the reinvention, the collaborations you have to book before the beer is finished, and why he had to learn to get nervous again.

It’s also a reunion — Erik was one of Lyndon’s guitar students about 30 years ago — so there’s a warmth and honesty here that goes deeper than the usual career chat. We cover grief, performance anxiety, the wedding gig where he refused to learn a Snow Patrol song (and then absolutely had to learn it), and the night his LPG gas tank fell off his car on the Calder Freeway, closing the freeway and ending a run of Adelaide gigs before they’d even begun.

Full transcript below. Topics include performance anxiety, music production, live sound engineering, and the reality of sustaining a creative career in Melbourne’s music scene.

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Transcript

Erik: I did a l- a late night drive to Adelaide one time for gigs, and my gas tank fell out.

Lyndon: Hang on, what?

Erik: I was, I was all organized. I’d got everything together. You know, I had three or four gigs booked for the weekend. Yeah. How does a

Lyndon: gas tank fall out?

Erik: That’s a really good question.

Lyndon: Hang on, like, as an LPG.

Breallyn: Which is like dropped onto the road while you were driving. Yeah.

Lyndon: So whoever installed it wasn’t licensed.

Erik: Yeah, I’m not gonna say who it was.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Was it you?

Erik: No. Did the whole thing was back in, you know, when, when labor government had the like big rebate for gas tank installations like years and years ago.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Early

Lyndon: 90s or something

Erik: like that. It was a bit later. Um, yeah. And I’d been doing lots of big road trips and I’d only just got back from like Alice Springs a little while before. So I’d driven all the way up there and all the way back. Yeah. And had some more Adelaide gigs coming up and was gonna do a night drive and I put on an audio book and I was like right in front.

I was like an hour out of Melbourne, full petrol tank, full gas tank coming around a corner and the gas tank fell out of the car onto the road. No. That’s awful. Yeah. Scraped along the back of the car with spark shooting out.

Lyndon: Oh, was there an explosion? Oh wow. That would’ve been so cool.

Breallyn: Thank goodness. It wouldn’t have been.

Erik: He was in the car. I think I’d be gone. Yeah.

Lyndon: I don’t know. Maybe it’s like when you see the gas like L- you know, like the camping gas bottles and like, or maybe it’s only in movies and like they sort of, they just shoot off like a rocket.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know, maybe someone else would’ve been killed but- No, luckily

Erik: it was still connected to

Lyndon: the car.

Oh,

Breallyn: okay. It would’ve been terrifying. All the

Erik: bolts were gone. Yeah. And it was dragging along by where the fuel goes out. Oh no. And just like skittering under my car.

Lyndon: So what

Breallyn: did you do? That’s horrifying.

Emergency Response Chaos

Erik: Uh, it took about eight hours to sort out. I called RECV. They were very curious about the situation. I went, “Oh yeah, okay, cool.

We’ll send out a truck.” ‘Cause I just thought, okay- Yeah. … you know, I can take it to a mechanic tomorrow.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: They might be able to just reattach it.

Lyndon: Ah.

Erik: RECV calls me a few minutes later saying, uh, you need to call Triple Zero-

Lyndon: Ah. …

Erik: to get the fire brigade out there.

Lyndon: Oh.

Erik: And, uh-

Lyndon: Serious.

Erik: Yeah. And so called Triple Zero, so cops arrive.

Lyndon: Oh no.

Erik: Uh, fireies arrive. They get there and go, “Oh, we need the like specialist LPG team to come and look at this. ” Oh no. The tow trucks arrive from IOCV, he’s just sitting there and then this is sort of taking an hour. I go up to him, I’m like, “I don’t think this is getting sorted here.” Yeah. ‘Cause, because RACV were basically like, “We can’t drag it up onto the thing that’s really unsafe at my night.”

Lyndon: Oh. ‘

Erik: Cause it’s, we don’t know if it’s been compromised or whatever.

Lyndon: Right, right.

Erik: And so, yeah, over the course of a couple of hours, the LPG team were looking at the thing. So it’s like there’s already two cop cars and two fire trucks and there’s like directing traffic and they’ve blocked off a lane. No. And, and the cops are trying to slow people down.

It’s on the freeway, like out, out near, um, Backus Marsh.

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Erik: Yeah. There’s this big crucifix on a hill that- Yeah, yeah I know the one. Yeah. The Melton exit, you know?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: and-

Lyndon: So you were just being judged

Erik: Yeah, like- been a

Breallyn: cinematic shot.

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: The fireball and

Erik: the cross. I was in such a zone. I put on like this horror novel to listen to.

And I was really in for like a nice eight hour drive of just like fully into this and just like, oh okay, this is an interesting thing to do on a way of doing touring of like leaving at night and doing a solo drive and I was already to go and meeting my friend who was already in Adelaide.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And, uh, yeah, like all this silly stuff happened.

I was, because the cops had blocked one of the lanes off. There was, there were cars just fanging past and the cops were trying to slow them down and as they were waving someone to slow down, he thought it was a booze bus.

Lyndon: Oh, right. Yeah.

Erik: And so pulled in and then went right up to the back of my car where this whole firey standing around going, “What are you doing?”

And then he went, and it went, “Oh, okay.” And then drove off and I was standing there with the cops and they’re like, “Hmm. We’re gonna check on him.” And so one of the cop cars went off and he was drunk.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: That’s what- Had he not pulled in, he would’ve been scot free. And I, I felt bad for him. I’m like, “This is my fault.”

So

Lyndon: his, his judgment was impaired.

Erik: Yeah, totally. He thought fire trucks was a boost bus.

Lyndon: Yeah, he pulled up to the fireman.

Erik: Yeah. And it, yeah, it went on, it went on for all night. It was like eight hours later. They had to bring in- Oh my gosh.

Freeway Shutdown and Gas Cloud

Erik: They had, they tried disconnecting the gas tank. Oh no, no. So they tried running a line from the engine out to like a big Bunsen burner to slowly burn off the gas.

Oh yeah, wow. ‘Cause a full tank, so like compressed and then that was, there was something faulty about that because there was a leak and so then they resolved to disconnect the gas tank, which meant they needed to close the freeway. Like it’s the middle of the night, not many people around. So that means more police because they needed police near the nearest exit either end to divert the traffic.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And so they were, because they were concerned when they disconnected the gas, there’d be a big cloud. And then when they did disconnect the gas, there was a big cloud. There was. It didn’t like explode or anything, but it was just, it’s a big, that’s compressed gas just going out and you could see it hovering.

Wow. So like you can’t have vehicles going through that in case there’s a spark.

Lyndon: Yeah. Ah.

Erik: And so the idea was disconnect that and then go and pour it out bit by bit.

Lyndon: Yep.

Breallyn: Right.

Erik: and then, wash that away-

with the fire truck. Yeah. You know, they can just dump all their water out.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: But they had to do it in bits.

They couldn’t just tip the whole thing out because then it wouldn’t disperse enough. And so they’d tip a little bit out, bring a fire truck up, dump all the water, empty that truck, move that truck.

Lyndon: Oh, wow, that much water.

Erik: Yeah. Move that truck and the truck can’t go straight through the cloud with gas, so they have to go back through the diversion, which over the course of the night started getting busier with traffic.

Lyndon: Oh, what?

Erik: And then bring in another truck to do the same thing. What do you

Lyndon: do while

Erik: this is

Lyndon: happening? Like you just-

Erik: My, yeah, my-

Lyndon: Are you just saying sorry a lot?

Erik: I don’t-

Lyndon: Is anyone asking you who installed it? No, but

Breallyn: it

Erik: didn’t really come to that. Luckily, and the cops took my details and stuff like, “Yeah, we’re gonna chase this up.”

They didn’t.

Lyndon: Yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause I thought, like, this is expensive.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: There, at, at one point there were 30 people there.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: It was all the fires and cops and stuff.

Lyndon: Wow.

Erik: and six vehicles- Yeah. … fire trucks and all these things going on and-

Lyndon: No media?

Erik: Yeah. No. Oh. ‘

Lyndon: Cause

Erik: it was like-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: started at one in the morning or something and nothing really happened except for the road getting closed, you know?

Everything

Breallyn: went according to them. The

Lyndon: gas cloud is pretty impressive.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: That’s impressive.

Erik: Yeah. Wow. But I suppose they just, yeah, didn’t want anyone around. and so it meant every time they had to send a new truck, which were either coming from back of Smarsh or Melton, they had to go through the diversion, which was a big line of cars that they had to move to get them through to go around the back and- Oh, yeah.

all this stuff.

Cancelled Adelaide Gigs

Erik: So, yeah, it was, that was the rest of my night. And, and as the hours went on, I just eventually rang my friend. I’m like, “I’m not gonna make it to Adelaide for the gigs.” Yeah. Sorry, Mary.

Lyndon: Oh, like for,

Erik: yeah. I had to cancel all the gigs because I, I was like, oh, I’m gonna get this fixed or at least disconnect the gas tank and then drive and then-

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right.

Erik: And then it just went on and on and on. ‘Cause you still

Lyndon: got petrol, yeah. Yeah.

Erik: But then I was just, the, there’d been some damage by the time they had to, uh-

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: You know, by the time they were pouring the thing out, they’d sort of hacked up my engine a little bit.

Lyndon: Oh.

Erik: I could still drive it on petrol, so I got home.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: But I was just rinsed and I’m like, there’s no way I’m-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: into these shows.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. But what a silly night.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: I still got footage of it somewhere on one of my old phones, like the morning. Beautiful, like foggy, misty morning, you know, and again, with that crucifix and all the, all the vineyards.

So it’s just all these like nice, like morning Jew.

Lyndon: After-

Erik: But then just like tons of bit like fireshots.

Lyndon: All the emergency vehicles and … Wow.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: That’s a cool story.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: The gig story that, that gigs that never eventuated.

Erik: Yeah.

Yeah. It’s just one of those things like, oh, I think I did so well, like hooking up all these gigs.

Yeah. It was kind of early on for when I started getting my, um, my shit together. Yeah. I’m gonna swear on this. Is that all right? Yeah, that’s all right. Yeah. Brie swears all the time. Yeah. I’ve just sort of, yeah, starting to kind of connect gigs and go interstate and-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And then, a gate. It was a kick in the teeth.

It was sort of made me go, oh, all right, I can be a bit more cautious maybe. I mean, that was pretty- Yeah, that’s a bit outrageous. Out of the blue. Yeah. yeah, and again, I won’t name the mechanic.

Breallyn: She knows who they are. I was upset

Erik: with them.

Breallyn: Yeah. Oh my

Lyndon: gosh.

Meet Erik Parker

Lyndon: Well, we should introduce you, shouldn’t we?

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. Welcome to Pain in the Arts where the pursuit of meaningful art meets the unexpected demands of real life. You’re with Lyndon.

Breallyn: And with Bri and we’re joined by a special guest today.

Erik: I’m Eric Parker.

Lyndon: Eric Parker.

Breallyn: Thanks for joining us, Eric. We’re so glad you’re here.

Lyndon: So we should actually talk about what you’re doing currently. Yeah, do meet

Breallyn: so much.

Nirvana Unplugged Tribute

Lyndon: In terms of life performance because you were saying you’re a bit of a chameleon and I I only see snippets of things on Facebook and I actually got that sense you’ll be quite theatrical with some of your performances. I’ve seen that you’ve done, I don’t know how often you’ve done this, but you’ve done like, like a nirvana-

Erik: Yeah. …

Lyndon: set. I don’t know, was that like a tribute thing or

Erik: Yeah, it’s, it’s the entire unplugged concert which sort of based on the, on the TV version of that. Oh, okay. Where we don’t just run through the songs, we do it in costume and do dialogue-

Lyndon: Oh, the whole thing. That’s so interesting.

Erik: That’s awesome. That’s just something I’ve, we’ve only done it like four times.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: But the first festival was, uh, The Town, and that’s like a immersive festival where they, they run a theme- Right. … that everyone involved is encouraged to go along with, including the patrons to like dress up. And that year they did ’90s edition.

Yeah. And, and I’m pretty friendly with the crew and I was like- Yeah. … I have an idea. That’s a great idea. I’ve kind of always wanted to do this. Yeah. And so, um-

Lyndon: And it spawned the whole, I mean, back in the day, it spawned the whole unplugged, MTV unplugged, didn’t it?

Erik: Well, yeah, I, maybe they’d done it before with- Right.

because I know there was like Kiss and-

Lyndon: Oh,

Erik: okay. … um, maybe Eric Clapton was that after, I can’t remember. I’m not

Lyndon: sure. ‘

Erik: Cause the Nevana one was

Lyndon: 93,

Erik: I think.

Lyndon: Maybe it just popularized it or …

Erik: Well, it changed music. Like

it brought acoustic more into grunge, I think- Yeah. … as a kind of acceptable thing, but, but-

Lyndon: And it overstayed its welcome at that at some point

Erik: too.

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I’m not just gonna tell all the bands that I think are crap, but yeah, like it, it, it sort of, yeah, but I think it opened up guitar to a lot more people ’cause they went, “Oh, you don’t need to have a full on electric guitar with a giant amp.” look what Kirk Cobain’s doing with this acoustic guitar, but also like playing in like Americana kind of stuff and- Yeah.

and yeah, a few, three chords and the truth kind of thing. I think that came through a lot more in that- Yeah. … in that concert.

Breallyn: Mm.

Erik: and you- Yeah,

Lyndon: you’re right. There was, I, I do remember back to just a lot of people picking up the guitar and going, “Oh, this is accessible and cool.”

Erik: Yeah. Yeah,

Lyndon: yeah.

Erik: Yeah. It really changed things. And I, and I didn’t even know there was a video of this concert for years because we just had the album when I was a kid. Yeah. It was just on and over and over again.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

Erik: and then, yeah, one afternoon going through all the videotapes at home, watched a movie and, you know, you could fit two movies on one VHS back in those days.

Oh yeah. And it just rolled through. I’m like, “What is this? ” Yeah. Magical. Unplugged thing.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Wow. And then years later there was a release of the, it’s pretty much just raw footage- where they haven’t, it’s, edited together, but it’s, they’ve just left in all the like chatter.

Lyndon: Right,

Erik: yeah. ‘Cause there’s sometimes like 10 minutes between a song where they’re just like smoking cigarettes and talking shit and I’m like,

I want to do a bit of that in

the show.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Oh yeah. And so we got to do it at this, this festival for the first time, which already had a built-in audience, you know, it’s a kind of thing that’s quite a popular festival smaller, but dedicated fan base. so there were lots of kind of, tributes, you know, DJs playing lots of 90s stuff and, and then, you know, themed little things going on in all these different spots on this, in this festival.

Lyndon: Oh.

Erik: And then we played on the last night to a packed room of all people that have been partying for like three days.

Lyndon: Geez.

Erik: And we went on-

But

Lyndon: it’s kind of perfect, isn’t it?

Erik: Yeah, and about maybe earlier in the, a few hours before I’d, I’d gotten wind that there was a guy there that had some like, uh, DV cameras.

Lyndon: Oh

Erik: yeah. Like the little like almost like that tape things, like can’t remember what digital tape things. And so I’d gone and hit him up and I was like, ” Can I swing you some cash to film this? ” Yeah. He’s like, “Yeah, cool.” And then there was some problems getting his rig set up beforehand and so it was sort of putting us back about 15 minutes.

Lyndon: Oh, okay.

Erik: And I’d been working at the festival as well, like stage managing, like hanging out with all the crew.

And, my mate, Jimmy, who was a production manager, he came up to me about, it was sort of like 10 minutes over time and he’s like, “Dude, what’s going on? “

Lyndon: Like

Erik: we got to run on time, man. Like this is not cool.

And I’m like, “Oh, I’m really sorry.” And he just like grinned at me and I’m like, “Oh dude.” Messing with me the whole time. It’s not, we’ve been like not now man. Yeah, that’s the

Lyndon: worst time

Erik: to play that joke. Like I don’t, I don’t mind a bit of mucking around, but like I’m, this is the first time I’ve done this and I don’t, it’s glad to do it.

yeah. But yeah, it was just such a success and we got so much footage out of it. Right. I’m like, “Yeah, I’d like to do this, but not all the time. I don’t want to be a tribute.”

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause I like doing so many different projects, so …

Lyndon: And did people get it like when you were like talking and whatever between songs

Erik: Straight away. They got it. They got it. Wow. You could, you could … I, got to reflect on it a bit more in, in watching the, the footage back. Right. And we’d multi-tracked it. So you could kind of hear a lot of what the audience were doing like through the overhead marks of the drums.

Lyndon: Oh, great, Yeah.

Erik: But there’s the, the first moment where we wander out on stage this is our first record.

Most people don’t own it. And there’s a bunch of people just went ah. So

Breallyn: good. I was

Erik: going to ask

Breallyn: if you did the accents and everything.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s- That’s cool. And, so the, so, Toby, the drummer and I, we had worked out a lot of the interaction- Right. … Kurt and Dave stuff.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

Erik: so we’re sort of throwing in lines and it’s like feed lines and answers and stuff.

Yeah,

Erik: yeah.

So

Breallyn: cool.

Lyndon: That’s really good.

Erik: I guarantee you I’ll screw this song up.

Lyndon: You, you’re not dressed as them.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, you are dressed

Erik: as them. Yeah.

Costumes and Stagecraft

Erik: From, from that, like we got the, well, at, at the very least my, my costume is, is pretty spot on.

Lyndon: No wigs.

Erik: no, I had tried to bleach my hair before that concert and it, it was my first time and it didn’t work.

Lyndon: It’s good to turn out pink.

Erik: No, it went kind of brassy.

Lyndon: Oh

Breallyn: yeah. Yes.

Erik: But I just uh- You

Breallyn: need the purple shampoo.

Erik: But I was friendly with the lighting crew, so I was like, can you just brighten my hair up somehow on stage and it worked. It was fine. Yeah. But I was sort of sort of timing my stubble as well.

That was like, I had to shave like a month before sort of had just a little bit of it. Oh

Lyndon: right, yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause it takes quite a while.

Lyndon: It pays to know your own facial hair, doesn’t it? Does put that on

Breallyn: a T-shirt?

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s a T-shirt.

Erik: Yeah. But yeah, that, yeah, had, because he’s got sort of three layers of shirts and then that big kind of cardigan on and-

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right.

The Brown

Erik: Cardigan

Lyndon: was it? Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: At least it wasn’t the one where he’s wearing a lot of dresses. There was a time, wasn’t he?

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: You did

Lyndon: that one as well.

Erik: But I just saw it as another challenge- Yeah.

musically and artistically,

Lyndon: yeah.

Breallyn: Very much like a perf- you know, artistic performance and-

Erik: Theatrical element to it,

Breallyn: the

Erik: show, which I’ve kind of gotten into more with different bands over last few years because I was in this big like, uh, rock cabaret thing with costumes and drag and stuff and Dane Blacklock and the Preacher’s Daughter for a few years, which was Satanic gospel cabaret show.

And, and that opened up a lot of, a lot, a different side of myself performance wise. Yeah. ‘Cause I’ve always just been like, “Get on stage, jump around, play the songs.” Right. But this is like, get on stage, make up skirt, uh, heaps of crowd interaction that’s written into the show- Right. … to then engage them in a certain way.

It’s a very

Lyndon: cabaret

Erik: in that sense. Very cabaret and, and, sort of some feed lines, but because of the chaotic nature of all the people in the band, it’s very neuro spicy band. Right. Um, written dialogue didn’t really help. So it’s sort of like, oh, I’ve just got to kind of go with a vibe and then if someone feeds on with it, that’s all right.

Right. Yeah. But then I’m sort of running around in the audience and, doing all sorts of things. And so that, yeah, that sort of opened up something. Yeah. I’m like, oh, I could like look just, it made me think more about stagecraft. Right, okay. And things. Whereas before I’ve just been like, oh, I just rock musician, I’ll get up and play with my band.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And then I’m like, oh, there’s a huge visual element to this. Like I hadn’t really-

Breallyn: It’s a whole different dynamic that what you’re describing there, like then yeah, just doing a cover set, to a pub type thing.

Erik: Yeah. And I, and I’ve made those fun over the years. Yeah. Like it, it’s having certain venue, like I used to play at God’s kitchen down in Mornington a lot and they kind of gave me a lot of regular gigs.

Like it was once a month at one point and then a couple of residencies every week.

Lyndon: Is that with the band or

Erik: solo doing my looping stuff?

Lyndon: Oh yeah, yeah.

Erik: So I’ve kind of, I’ve got a rig where I can beat box a little bit and some guitar pedals so I can put a bass line down. So if there’s a sub and a big system, I can give a pretty big heaving sound and with that rig, it’s easy to play gently if people are having dinner, but then-

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: once, you know, the kind of trick is everyone’s looking and like, uh, what’s going on with this guy? You just need to get two girls dancing.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: And then a couple of guys are like, “Oh, this guy’s all right actually.” So you just bring the

Lyndon: girls along. You

Erik: just gotta talk to people. Yeah. Like that’s, that took us so long.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: When I was younger, I was like, “Oh, I’m just the guy in the corner.”

Lyndon: Were you shy like as a kid?

Erik: Yeah. ‘

Lyndon: Cause I was, I was shy. Apart from when people came to the front door, I act like complete lunatic. But, um- When you

Breallyn: were a kid?

Lyndon: When I was really young, yeah. Like I’d show off. But I think as I grew up, I got, I was more, yeah, timid for sure.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: For

Erik: sure with me. I was, I was that way.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Nerves and Rehearsal Reality

Lyndon: So what, what happened? Because like you, you- I guess like- Like I, to do that more performance art and, the theatrical kind of stuff that you’re doing, like it’s not for everyone, is it?

Erik: Yeah. It

Lyndon: takes some sort of gumption.

Erik: Yeah. It’s almost like … don’t know. I, I talk to a lot of people about nerves and being, like I, I do guitar teaching and I used, I used to host open mics all the time.

Lyndon: Right. Yeah.

Erik: And you do recognize when people are nervous about it, even if they’re in a lesson or they’re getting up to have a play or-

Lyndon: You

Erik: can feel it.

students that all they want to do is sing or play guitar or whatever. And, they’ve shown up to a karaoke night or an open thing or sitting around with friends and they know that they’re pretty good, but they still go, “I

Lyndon: can’t,

Erik: I couldn’t do

Lyndon: it. “

Erik: Yeah. And-

Breallyn: What if I make a mistake?

Erik: Yeah, the next thing to learn, I mean, the next thing to learn from me was like nerves are good.

It’s this, it’s a form of energy.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: I mean, I, I got to a point where I wasn’t getting nervous ever before a gig and it actually sucked.

Lyndon: Mm.

Erik: And it wasn’t like-

Lyndon: Why is that because you got nothing to feed off or …

Erik: I don’t know. And, and I, I don’t want to make it sound like I was like, I’m, I’m top shit.

I’m gonna nail this.

Lyndon: Mm.

Erik: It was more just like I’m going through the motions- Right. … of these songs.

Lyndon: Yeah,

Erik: yeah. And I had to figure out how to get nervous again, and it was almost like putting a lot of songs that I’d only really worked on like halfway through- Yeah. … and hadn’t quite nailed. Yeah. So that I get a little bit of that panic or just, or just picking songs that are still good, but I might be a little bit of out of practice with-

Yeah,

um, to sort of keep, to, I don’t know, kick starting into the moment. Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. ‘Cause proficiency is one thing, but feeling like you’re just going through the motions is- Yeah. Yeah, then that de- energizes everything.

Erik: Yeah. And it’s tricky balance because you don’t, I mean, watching someone whose legs are shaking and they’re just freaking out and they’re like, especially singing, like if your throat kind of closes up- Yeah.

it can affect your tone and, and cause some damage if you’re not careful. so it’s almost, yeah, I guess with the theatrical stuff, it allows more of a release ’cause if I’m on stage and I’ve got guitar to do and vocals to do and I’ve got to jump around and I’ve got to time things with how other people on stage because in, in that band there were eight vocal microphones on the go at any one time-

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Oh, and a lot of ADHD. And so people are like just interacting with crowd in between songs and you, if your monitoring’s off, you don’t know when someone else is talking. Right. Yeah. And so you kind of had to, there was a lot of visual cues. Yeah. But then it’s all like smoke effects and crazy lighting stuff sometimes.

How

Lyndon: much, how much rehearsal goes into something like that? Ugh.

how, how much successful rehearsal?

Erik: Yeah, none, I don’t think. I, I don’t want, I’ve, I’ve, I’m not in that project anymore. I don’t want to disparage it, but yeah, rehearsals were pretty tricky.

Lyndon: Yeah,

Erik: I

Lyndon: imagine.

Erik: Very tricky. Um-

Lyndon: They’re tricky at the best of times.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: Like even just trying to organize four people, you know.

Erik: Yeah. And so that was 11. Yeah,

Breallyn: that’s a lot.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah. And, and so it was very rare to have a rehearsal where everybody was in the room. So we’d have to kind of do, partial rehearsals, often I, I like to sort of, peel off with the singers and-

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: help them with harmonies and

Lyndon: stuff. Yeah.

Erik: and then sometimes it’s like, oh, okay, we’ve only got drums, guitar, bass and brass today, no singers or whatever. So-

Lyndon: Well, it’s dedication.

Erik: Yeah. ‘

Lyndon: Cause that wouldn’t be easy.

Breallyn: Not at all.

Erik: No. It sounds like

Breallyn: you … I was gonna say, it sounds like you do so many things like, with performance and production and all kinds of stuff.

Building a Diverse Career

Breallyn: Have you deliberately built your career to have a big variety of things like that or- Yeah. … is it just how it’s happened?

Erik: Yeah, I had a feeling this would come up today and I never really have a good answer for it. Oh, that’s fine. But, um-

Breallyn: We can graduate.

Erik: No, no, no. I totally, I do wanna talk about it because I feel like I do have insight into this.

Breallyn: Good.

Erik: I guess, I mean, I talk about how I just got started. I think how I enjoy music, art, performance, whatever it is, I’m interested enough in so many things that I wanted to have a go at them-

Breallyn: Yeah. …

Erik: as a motivating force. But then it’s also just a need for having a lot of work to- Yeah. … cover my costs.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: And then figuring out that I was interested in things and figuring out that I could learn some of them on the fly-

Breallyn: Okay, yeah. …

Erik: helped that. And, nowadays, I guess, having or six performance things to do, doing live audio, doing studio, audio, teaching guitar and singing, they all enrich each other.

Breallyn: Mm. Yeah.

Erik: But I’ve found that an imbalance-

Lyndon: Right. …

Erik: kind of makes me not enjoy it because- Yeah, isn’t that true. … because I gotten into, uh, maybe seven years ago where it was mainly gigs.

Breallyn: Right.

Erik: And mainly covers gigs I was hosting an open mic night on a Thursday and then I’d play Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

And then on Monday, Tuesday, I just didn’t even wanna hear music in there.

Breallyn: Yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause I would’ve just been blasting-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: songs out.

Breallyn: Yep.

Erik: probably having a couple too many drinks at every gig as well, and that lifestyle just, it caught up with me of my … I started losing my voice all the time.

Breallyn: Mm.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And

Erik: I went, there’s an imbalance here.

Yep,

And, and, and I had my teaching job in St Kilda at the time as well.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Which I, I think, yeah, I, was managing that business because my boss went away and left me in charge. So I was like running a business, working there, teaching, doing all the gigs on the weekend, and that was, that was just a general life imbalance, because I was like- Yeah.

“Oh no, give me more, more. Like I’m, I’m trying to save money, like all this stuff.” And I realized I was working seven days a week and- Yeah. Yeah. No good- Not sustainable.

Breallyn: Burn out

Erik: eventually. Yeah, it’s a sort of, it’s fine tuning over many years. Yeah. And, and, and then sometimes I get bored and I think I just wanna change everything again.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep.

Producing Records and Mixing

Erik: So recording has been, I’ve been doing more of that over the last few years.

Breallyn: Okay.

Erik: Look- But even then-

Breallyn: Recording what? Like specifically like

Erik: for- Uh, band solo artists- Okay. … um, record, like working on electronic music with people- Wow,

Breallyn: yeah. …

Erik: producing EPs and albums for other people.

Breallyn: Right.

Erik: Never finishing my own stuff.

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so, but in that it’s sort of like keeping chops up.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: And because, because like nowadays with live audio, if you’ve worked in a recording setup, you know, on a computer, like the digital consoles, it’s to, it’s a recording studio.

Lyndon: It’s a song. Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah. You, sort of speak in the same language and then-

Lyndon: There’s the display there, it’s the color display

Erik: and it looks like- Yeah, you’re flipping through plugins and, and all that sort of thing. Like it’s, it, it does feel different. But then all the live audio stuff you go back into the studio and you’re like, you’ve got a different feel of what music is compared to like sitting on some like perfectly tuned speakers in a studio or headphones and you go, “Oh, hang on.

I do want this to sound.” Right. Yeah. Like it’s a gig sometimes like- Yeah, a bit

Lyndon: more immersive or

Erik: something. Yeah, yeah. Produced an album for Eight Foot Felix a couple years ago who I’d admired for a really long time and I’d only seen them live for such a long time before I got to know them and so then producing their album, like,

I want this to feel like all those

times like Rainbow Serpent Festival where I was like watching them on stage from afar and admiring them and like totally like in, in the, in the moment and, uh, I guess they, they trusted me enough to like have, have a go at that.

Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s great.

Erik: Um,

Breallyn: how did it come out? Were you happy with that? Really happy with it. They’re really happy with it. Yeah. Yeah, that’s so great. Yeah. And like what amazing thing to bring to it, like to go, I’ve, I’ve had these experiences, I’ve seen this band live and with this recording we can give that experience to other people that, either fans or may not get that chance to see them.

Erik: Yeah. ‘Cause I, I found it important early on to give them like a dry mix of it, of like, this is what I’ve recorded, this is what you’ve played and they’re like, yeah, do what you want experiment and I’m going, yeah, cool, got a few new bits of software and like I’m gonna play around with stuff and, just charge for when I’m like actually doing work.

But they were like- Yeah, that’s a tricky one. … if you want this to be a creative thing, like I was just all in it, you know, getting to express myself creatively was the important part of it.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: That’s great. And I’ve some, I’ve had an artist a, a, couple of years ago who put me in charge of producing his album where he’d recorded some stuff elsewhere and he wanted me to experiment with it because he wanted me to arrange, book other musicians to come in and, and guide the arrangements- Right.

and do, uh, vocal harmonies over the top-

Lyndon: Okay. …

Erik: that I arranged and decide what instruments were gonna go on this thing. It’s a lot of,

Lyndon: that’s a lot of license,

Erik: isn’t it? Yeah. And, and he was willing to pay for that part of the process- That’s very cool. … of, the experimentation and the admin and all, and that sort of thing.

He’s like- Wow. … because he didn’t want to think about it at all.

Wow.

Yeah. And I, I realize sometimes like I need to do that with my work sometimes, like put it in someone else’s hands.

Breallyn: Mm. Yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause otherwise I’ll, I’ll pour over it. You

Breallyn: micromanage it,

Erik: yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

How They Met Erik

Breallyn: We should, um, talk about how you know Eric. Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s, talk about origin stories.

Lyndon: I once knew a man from Karingo. No, here

Erik: we go.

That’s still written in my book somewhere.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. Well- Yeah. I, okay, so I know Eric because I was a guitar teacher and Eric was one of my students.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And you would have been eight or nine.

Erik: Yeah. So it’s coming up on 30 years ago.

Lyndon: Wow. Oh my goodness.

Erik: Yeah. Which, um, yeah,

Lyndon: which means we’re both in our late 30s.

Yeah, yeah. Um, at least. At least. I was probably teaching three or four nights a week. I can’t remember exactly, but, yeah, that was like my main job at the time. So I was teaching guitar and doing gigs. Yep. That’s what I was doing at that time. Yeah,

Theme Songs and X Files

Lyndon: So, um, yeah, I’ve got fond memories of, of, uh, teaching you because you’re so enthusiastic.

Well, we was just talking about this earlier. We did the Simpsons theme, we did- Yeah, and it was- … South Park theme.

Erik: X-Files as well. X-Files. Which was strange for a nine-year-old, but it

Breallyn: was- I think you were an unusual nine-year-old

Erik: for me. Yeah, I guess it was one of those shows of, I don’t know, we had two TVs in the house, you might be able to watch.

Sneak out. Yeah.

Lyndon: The X Files was on pretty late, wasn’t it?

Breallyn: It

Erik: was

Breallyn: the show of the

Erik: 90s kind of thing. So, but I might have just heard, heard the theme some of the room perhaps while somebody else was watching it. ‘Cause I remember, like, I’ve gotten back into that series recently.

Lyndon: Yeah. Oh, wow,

Erik: Scully. And just like watching some of the episodes that are burned traumatically into my mind from watching them when I was too young.

Oh, wow. And watching them now and going like, “This is terrible.”

Lyndon: Not as good as … Yeah.

Erik: Not as scary. And, and because the memory changes, you know, how you rewrite your memories every time you think of them. Yeah. Yeah. But the actual image of the horrifying thing is actually quite silly and-

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah. …

Erik: you know, schlocky horror.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

those sort of theme songs and … Because I just wanted to play rock and roll. Like I just- Yeah. I just grew up blues, rock and roll, all that stuff. Yeah. Like really artistically enthused parents.

Lyndon: I was gonna say, because your

Erik: dad

Lyndon: was an avid music lover, wasn’t

Erik: he? Yeah. Yeah.

He was, I, I say a frustrated musician- Right. … in that he never really got to be one.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: that just wasn’t an option when he was a kid, um- Yeah. … you know, working class background.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: That, that was … Yeah, it just wasn’t- Yeah. … wasn’t available to him. But he was, he was interested. Like he was in a band in the early 80s called Every Night Something Atrocious.

Yeah. And- Great name. And he, he programmed the drum machine-

Breallyn: Oh, wow. …

Erik: and played the synthesizer in that band, so- What?

Breallyn: Oh,

Erik: that’s cool. And I still have that drum machine and I still have that synthesizer. Yeah, cool. That’s cool. I decided they were hand-me-downs at some point and-

Breallyn: Took them.

Erik: Yeah. I’ve spent more getting them repaired over the years than he ever paid for them originally, but it’s, they’re treasured.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: Absolutely.

Erik: But, uh, that, that sort of meant when, because I, I was crap at school.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: I was, I was distracted and not very attentive and disruptive and-

Lyndon: Right, But, people thought I was clever.

Erik: So they thought that I was, when I was disruptive, I was being a little bastard, but- you know, not, that.

Breallyn: Just hadn’t applied yourself and-

Erik: Yeah, yeah. Like every school report was the same thing.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: And, but then it, yeah, it was actually my, my grandpa on, on mum’s side. It was like, “Oh, there’s this music school down the road doing lessons.” Ah. This is probably something that needs to happen because the-

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: listening to music, it was common with a lot of people in my family- Mm. … that to visit and then listen to what they’d got ahold of recently or they- It’s very

Breallyn: cool. I love that. Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. They’re like, “Have you heard this? ” Yeah. Or, or they’d just be music on- Yeah. … when you, when you arrived or it would be on over dinner- Mm.

and, you know, if you prick up your ears, they’re like, “Oh, do you wanna know more about this? ” Yeah, yeah. So yeah, all the, all the like classic guitar stuff that my mom’s parents listened to was, was pretty big and, but at home it was like Hendrix and Stones That was mom’s favorite Rolling Stones. Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah, cool.

Erik: And, so there was a vinyl collection and a CD collection in the-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: cassette tape collection- Right

Lyndon: on.

Erik: Yeah. … which is, which is this there all the time. And so when I got a Walkman, it was like, I can just go and grab that or it’s like, oh, we don’t have that record on the tape. Oh, can we get a tape and

Lyndon: Yeah. Ah, yeah.

Cassettes and Lesson Rituals

Erik: So that, that was like early production stuff for me really. Yeah, that’s

Lyndon: right.

Erik: Right. You can plug a thing into another thing-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: and put sound from that onto that.

Lyndon: Yeah. And

Erik: that was huge.

Lyndon: Yeah. How awesome was that?

Erik: And when we were having lessons, that was, part of the process-

Lyndon: It was,

Erik: yeah.

in those days. Yeah. It’s like, it’s all changed now. Um, but bringing in a cassette-

Lyndon: That’s right,

Erik: yeah. … here’s a bunch of songs I wanna learn.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And then the thing of going, play-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: all right, stop, try and play that, rewind, go back, play that.

Lyndon: Did I ever record the lessons for you as well? ‘Cause I know some people wanted

Erik: them to record.

I think so, yeah. We, because I, think after-

Lyndon: It was an

Erik: option. ‘Cause we had, lessons about three years, I think.

Lyndon: Was it really?

Erik: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And then, or maybe more, because, um-

Lyndon: Yeah, I can’t remember.

Erik: Yeah.

Getting Fired and Losing Mum

Erik: I know you’ve talked about it on the show before, at the departure from, not being really friendly.

Lyndon: Did your lessons-

Erik: I remember all this- …

Lyndon: Stuck with me when I got fired.

Erik: I stayed at Blue Note-

Lyndon: Yeah, okay. …

Erik: and had, and then had two different teachers after that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Wow. But I, I remember that happening and-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. ‘Cause you text me about it like- Oh,

Lyndon: no. Oh,

Erik: right. Sorry, sorry, but, you know-

Lyndon: Sorry, I’m no longer there.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: That’s so funny.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: I’ve still got the cassette tape from the answering machine that he left the message on when he fired me.

Erik: Oh God,

Lyndon: I should find it and play it. Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause I, and I looked at, yeah, I, I-

Lyndon: “Pack your stuff. I’ve packed up all your stuff. It’s in a box. Come and get it if you want.”

Erik: Yeah. It’s surprising to me. And, and look, it’s, it’s a shame that it happened when that did because that was, that following year, I really took a different approach to music.

Lyndon: Oh, right.

Erik: I guess I’d started high school by then, but yeah, like life changed. My mom died when I was 12. Right. And

Lyndon: okay.

Erik: And then that, so I, so I knew you through the, that was concurrent with her illness.

Lyndon: Right, that’s

Erik: right. Yes. I started, I’d started playing guitar pretty much within the same month-

Lyndon: That she got

Erik: ill. She was diagnosed with cancer.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Okay. And, and then it was three years of in and out and all that sort of stuff. So the whole time I was doing guitar lessons and even if I wasn’t practicing, they were, mum and dad were like, “Yeah, this is good in use this.

You’ve got to

Lyndon: keep doing it. So it was like a distraction thing or

Erik: something else to focus on now. Yeah, it’s different too and I’ve, because I’ve been, it’s funny because I listen to this show and so I’ve been like listening to your voice and going like, “This sounds like something from when I was a kid. This is really nice.”

Lyndon: Oh, just the sound of the, the

Erik: sound of my voice. ‘Cause, because that’s the thing and, and having taught guitar for so long and singing-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Teaching Philosophy and Confidence

Erik: I’ve, had students over the years where, I go like, I like, it’d be, be good if you practiced a bit more and got more out of it and sometimes they’re like, “Oh, look, I got a really busy job and like life’s hectic kind of just like coming and hanging out here for like half an hour.”

Yeah. And so-

Lyndon: Yeah. I’ve had mature age students that that’s very much what

Erik: they

Lyndon: say. Yeah.

Erik: Yeah, they’re like, kids and family and works really hard. Yeah. Especially people with like laboring jobs who are like their hands are-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: They’re tough and they can’t really get them around the instrument and they’re like, “This is just my time off.”

So I think, I think-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: the lessons that I had then, it was just a, a different world-

Lyndon: Right. …

Erik: to get into for half an hour a week.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Erik: 6:30 on a Tuesday was the lesson.

Breallyn: And isn’t that interesting how you, you had that, but it lasts all week, doesn’t it? Like the experience from that lesson, like it carries you through in some

Erik: ways.

The, the early days of it, it was panic because I did miss practice for two days and then totally forget what was going on.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And, then over, over time just getting my hands around thing. And I was little as well because I’ve taught a lot of little kids and it’s like you just can’t play certain chords.

Yeah, yeah. Like you’re just not gonna sound good for a couple of years. Yeah. And I, I was very little when I was little. Yeah. I had a growth spurt when I was like 13. Yeah. So before that I was just like this tiny little kid.

Yeah,

Lyndon: you were small.

Erik: Yeah. And, but yeah, just having that break from school stress, life stress, family stress.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Just to like come in and engage with music in, in a different way, like, oh, I can be, part of this. And I think that same year, so a few, a few months before I started guitar lessons, I’d gone to see the presidents of the United States of America- Oh yeah. My dad with Custard opened for them.

They’re

Lyndon: brilliant.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: What a great gig that would’ve

Erik: been. Yeah, Festival Hall, 1996, July something.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And that was, that was a pretty big deal. Yeah. You go to big rock show with dad and like probably the biggest crowd I’ve ever been in in my life. Like we weren’t in the mosh obviously. Yeah. We had some seats.

Lyndon: Yeah,

Erik: but dad was just like, if I wanted a fizzy drink, he’s like, yeah, if you go, gives me some cash to like walk down to the bar by myself and get a drink. And just, it’s amazing. Yeah. And then the show and I knew the song so well because I’d got the album for Christmas the year before and, um- That’s

Lyndon: right.

Erik: you know, Custard was on the radio all the time, so it was like, it was a big deal and I can’t remember what my train of thought was with that of,

Lyndon: Just the

Erik: whole

Lyndon: other world of-

Erik: The other world, but, but what I wanted to get to was with, with teaching, having students now that it’s like, oh, we’re going to the, mom and dad are taking me to Paul McCartney or some huge rock show on the stadium.

Lyndon: Right. Yeah.

Erik: And I have to pull the parents aside at some point, I’m like, take them to a local gig.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Erik: You live in Northgate go around the corner, watch a shitty local band for five bucks- Yeah. … or a really great local band for five bucks. And there’s, there might be a couple of bands on like- Yeah.

And, and so the reason I had for that thought was like, I’d gone to that big show, but then not long after I started lessons with you, dad took me to one of your gigs.

Lyndon: Oh, right.

Breallyn: Oh

Erik: wow. Yeah.

Lyndon: I wonder where that was.

Erik: Palace behind in St Kilda, the old Palace.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Wow.

Erik: And that, I think it’s really important because now, now it’s, it’s sort of hard to get that across to, to parents of students.

Yeah. Right. Or even students of adult age of like go to local gigs because, because you need that step instead of going like, it’s not just practice guitar and then- And then you’re on the massive- And then stadium. Yeah. It’s like-

Lyndon: Yeah,

Erik: interesting. Practice guitar, drag your ass around playing at local venues.

Yeah, everything. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that’s attainable- Yeah, that’s right. … just to a certain degree and- Yeah. And so, so over, over time I’ve sort of f- with, all of my different jobs that I do, I don’t have it all worked out. Yeah. I don’t necessarily have a career that went the way that I’ve planned it.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: But when I see people getting started out-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: or they’re particularly green in a certain area or there’s some gap there- Yeah. … like I like being that little nudge of people. Yeah. Like it’s a student that might be confident in every aspect of their life, but they’re terrified of singing in front of people, you know, even their own housemates or family or whatever their situation is.

Lyndon: Yep.

Erik: Make them comfortable to do that.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: To try that. And so they do that with me and the lessons and then they can do that on stage somewhere. And they’re like, “Okay, are you comfortable doing that in front of other people? Come do an open mic night and- Right. … get up and sing.”

Lyndon: Mm.

Erik: And then it’s like they get to come and get better at it doing it that way and then with organizing gigs or stage managing or something, like-

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: are these people comfortable so that they can get on stage and be, be the best they are. Yeah. You still find prima donnas, which is the other side of that too. Yeah. They’re way over confident.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And then you just gotta go, “Okay, that’s just them doing their nervous

thing-That’s

Lyndon: right.

Erik: Beforehand and like, okay, cool, make them comfortable.

It’s a good show.”

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. and, in the studio as well, it’s like guiding, guiding people along and knowing how to get the best performance out of

Lyndon: them.

Psychology in the Blood

Breallyn: You seem incredibly like in tune with, with people, I don’t know, their moods, where they’re coming from, that kind of thing.

Like I feel like you could have had an equally successful career as a psychologist or mentor or like that sort of thing. That’s a

Lyndon: frightening thought, isn’t it?

Breallyn: Well, even when we were talking before about, how to approach venues and just, oh, the way that people might perceive you or how, how to get information across in a way that people can receive it where they need to hear it, you seem incredibly in tuned with whoever it is that you’re dealing with a, a student or a, a venue or a CEO or something or whatever.

So what, is that something that you are kind of aware of all the time? Like is that, or does that sort of come from somewhere like what-

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. That’s, that’s in my blood.

Breallyn: Yeah,

Erik: okay. Mom was a psychologist.

Breallyn: Oh, you’re kidding?

Erik: Yeah. Wow. Wow. She, she mainly worked in research, but, yeah, studied child psychology.

Breallyn: Wow. There you

Lyndon: go.

Erik: dad worked in, child protection adolescent welfare.

Breallyn: Really?

Erik: Um, my sister is a speech pathologist now. Oh my gosh. Auntie’s a psychologist.

Breallyn: Wow. So it’s definitely- And you’re in the arts. … your

Erik: family. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess, I think there’s been a s- a struggle with that, like for me.

Like the f- the fact that I’m in tune with it now would be because I’ve had to figure out how to talk to myself nicely-

Breallyn: Oh, okay. Yeah. …

Erik: over the years. Yes. Really self-critical and that’s- Wow. … that’s, from being a little bit of a rat bag in school when I was really little, just being called a low life piece of shit by a teacher, like the-

Lyndon: That’s unreal

School Trauma and the Strap

Erik: This quite, this, again, back to this thing of our lessons when I was a kid, the year that I met you being, one of my favorite teachers in my life over, over the years- Well,

Lyndon: you can say the best teacher, yeah.

Erik: The best, the best one ever. Foundational, you know- Yeah, all right. … set the bar for the rest of them.

Lyndon: Yeah, okay, I’ll take that.

Erik: But, uh, I had the worst teacher in primary school, like my primary school teacher that, that year- Oh, wow. … like brutal, terrible bastard who would, who would-

Lyndon: Wow. …

Erik: threaten kids and like, he missed the old days of the strap and he’d tell us about it all the time and- Oh wow. This is one of those guys that’s like, I’ve argued with him in my head for decades like, oh, I could really give that guy a peace of my mind these days.

Yeah. Well, I saw him on the street. Yeah. If I saw him, he’d be a million years old now and probably I’d be really sympathetic of like you pour old dinosaur come

Breallyn: over here.

Erik: Yes, you were just from a different time and the laws changed and you weren’t allowed to beat the shit out of kids anymore. How hard for you.

Oh, this must have been very tough, this one size fits all. Yeah, he, he kept the strap in the, in the school room.

Lyndon: wow. The strap.

Erik: He had his strap.

Lyndon: Actually, I’ve never seen the strap.

Erik: I’ve seen one. Yeah. So it’s not just the

Lyndon: belt. It’s not just the belt.

Erik: It looked like a specific weapon-

You’re

Erik: right.

you’re beating children with because it’s just sort of like folded in kind of-

Breallyn: Oh my gosh. …

Erik: stapled together thing or something.

Breallyn: So people actually had a job of making straps to be- Yeah, you

Erik: must have gone down to the stationary store and got to like, and they, you know, did they have a test dummy or something with like-

Breallyn: Oh yeah.

I’d like one with more flex. Yeah. I’d like one with, you know, a bit more of this.

Lyndon: Probably like before then it was probably whips and then someone was like, the whips, they look a little bit like, you know- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, just a bit too like obvious that that’s what you’re doing. You, are you whipping the kids in your classroom?

No, no, no, no, no. Strapping them. Yeah. So that’s- I have a strap now.

Erik: Yeah. So that, that comes back to that escape that I had in music lessons of like, oh, that was what I was dealing with every day at school was- Yeah, that’s tough. It’s like really nasty teacher.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: It’s like this is- And especially when your mom

Breallyn: was ill and-

Erik: Yeah, and, and my, my parents, like they were quite aware of these things.

Like I was, I was raised in a way that if something was wrong or felt wrong, I should speak up about it.

Breallyn: Yeah, wow, yeah.

Erik: But he would threaten us that if we told our parents he would- Really? And I went, that feels weird and it was only after he’d done it to lots of my friends. I was like, “Something needs to happen here.”

Yeah. And, uh-

Lyndon: Like a court case.

Erik: And he, because he hated my sister as well. He’d taught her, some years prior.

Lyndon: Right.

Breallyn: Yeah,

Erik: right. So he had, he had it in for me to begin with. Oh, right. My sister and I are very different people.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Like she was a little tomboy, very she stood up for herself and very little and, yeah, we kind of, but whereas I was like very sensitive or am very sensitive, to criticism and whatever and, uh, and so he sort of picked up up on that oh, your, your sister’s like a little bitch, um, that I had a hard time with, uh- I couldn’t break

Breallyn: her

Erik: spirit.

Let me have her go at you then. Oh, you’re really easy. You go to pieces just with the slightest thing. I can just raise my voice and you’ll cry and then I can … Yeah. So horrible. Remember one time I brought, I’d been sick and so you, you bring in a note from your parents, you read it out to the class.

Lyndon: Oh,

Erik: what erjack.

Breallyn: Talk to us.

Erik: Yeah..

Lyndon: Yeah. What school was that?

Erik: Uh, Seaford Primary School.

Lyndon: Really? Really?

Erik: Yeah. And, uh- Wow. Yeah. It was almost like he had this, like he was sort of tenured or something like that. I don’t know how, how it was that he, he lasted something like, because he hated kids.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: He hated kids and

Lyndon: He had issues.

Erik: He had some issues. Yeah. And nowadays I go like, “Oh, wonder what went wrong.”

This is a psychological thing I guess. I wonder what he had that was

Lyndon: undiagnosed.

Erik: Being able to get a like a measure of people in a way, which sort of, which sort of helps in the industry. ‘Cause like in, in the business, I guess like there’s a, a kind of, feeling of hierarchy and like how to climb and how to get ahead.

Lyndon: Mm.

Erik: But I’d never really had that.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Like, oh, how can I take advantage of people and want to do that, yeah, it’s like, oh, how can I actually be like a supportive ladder? It’s like, oh, I’ve, I’ve found the path to this way. I’ll just open the door or like show my footsteps to people.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah,

Breallyn: that’s

nice.

And then-

Which is awesome. I think we need more of you around.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: We were talking earlier about how we both sort of feel like we’ve been taking advantage of trying to just, you know, get ahead or line their own pockets or, you know.

Erik: Yeah. And it happens. I think it’s worth the risk.

Yeah. You say one out of 10 people is a sneaky ladder climber who’ll use you as a rung step on and then the others are like- Yeah. … this is a community where-

Lyndon: Right.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: there’s career rises and falls and- Yeah, that’s right. … and you want friends on both, in both directions going up and down. Yeah, the ones that like, “Oh, I can see you worked really hard on that.

Yeah, I got this other gig for you. “

And then others like, “Ah, you’re in a bit of a slump. Oh, I’ve got a gig for you. No worries.”

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah.

Breallyn: You know? Yeah. Yeah, that’s great.

Lyndon: Yeah. That’s really good.

Pragmatic Work and Self Care

Erik: What I’ve had to sort of piece together over the years is a very pragmatic approach to my work.

Breallyn: Mm.

Erik: whether I call it a career or not, so learning all of those strategies for how to deal with people and manage myself, it’s all to the service of the work, I guess.

Yeah. Like, because I think over, over the year, like talking about, so performance anxiety or, you know, not being able to connect with an audience and stuff, like over time just going like, “Oh no, it’s actually my job to do this. “

Mm.

So I need to improve it.

Mm.

Um, yeah, like I, I don’t just wanna punch the clock and- Yeah.

play my songs and leave, you know? ‘Cause

Lyndon: you can only ignore it for so long, can’t you, before you go, yeah, I need to address this.

Yeah.

Erik: Well, and I had it with my voice a few years ago- Mm. … going like, I’m ignoring something.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: And it happened for a couple of years until I just had, had vocal fatigue just all the time.

Lyndon: Mm.

Erik: And so I’d be losing my voice after every gig and then I got a gig the next day. And so it’s, it’s sort of, I mean, health and exercise and all these things kinda come into it- you know, and, and realizing certain behaviors of mine were impacting it. Yeah. Um, because I wanna, I wanna do all these different interesting things and, and try new stuff all the time and- Yeah.

and just taking a kind of measured view of that. and so, you know, I’ve, I’ve touched on the fact of having like early grief in my life.

Breallyn: Yeah,

Erik: And even with that, like you know, grief is very hard to kind of, uh, measure and quantify and, and, and, work through. But when something happens of going, okay, I’m entering this process-

Breallyn: Mm.

Erik: and I need to be mindful of it and the fact that I’m freelance means that I’ve got a little bit of leeway, like I can, I can just kinda cut some work out- Yeah. … and collaborating with a lot of people that I- Right. … I care about and that they care about me, it’s, it’s okay to say, “Hey, that deadline’s gonna get pushed back a little bit.”

Um, if something bad happens, because, um, I have experienced quite a lot of grief over the years.

Lyndon: So does that, are you sort of suggesting the, the grief that it, like, it’ll just sort of come to, it’ll rise to the fore sometimes unexpectedly and that- If,

Erik: if you push it down, because it’s, it’s, I mean, in, in, I’ve had problems with alcohol and, and drugs over the years-

Lyndon: Yep.

Erik: and that’s the easy solution for feeling things too much.

But work has had that same thing too of like, oh, I’ll just bury myself in this project and- Yeah, sure.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Um, because sometimes that’s tricky with music. You like go, “Oh, I’ve got a really, some really nice lyrics out of that situation that helped me heal.”

Lyndon: Yes.

Erik: But then I also finished a song and now I get to enjoy those lyrics and-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: and things where you go, “Oh, but I, I just wrote them down. I didn’t really have- Right. … have all of the feelings.” Yeah. And so it’s sort of this thing of measuring it. Yeah. And so, and so I got to a point with like teaching and, and gigs and stuff, I was just sort of in this, this sort of, what’s the word, like tempest of just, just keep the noise going so it quietens all the other stuff down.

Yeah. And then I’m driving to a gig and I have a panic attack and I go, “Ah, that’s all the stuff I’ve been pushing down.” So, so taking a pragmatic view of that, like all these things kind of lean in. I’m, I’m, I can’t remember who the guest was on here a few weeks ago, but he was talking about not thinking about it as, of everything as work.

Lyndon: Okay, yeah.

Erik: But, uh, for me, I, I do-

Breallyn: So all of life is work f- or, or it’s sort of, not work, work, but like- Yeah,

Erik: it’s- …

Breallyn: In service of the mu- the music and the, the- I guess so, yeah,

Erik: because I, because I think, and, but not necessarily like, I think the way that it started was if I wanna perform, if I wanna sing for people, if they’re willing to listen, I owe it to them to show up-

on form, you know, and, and warmed up and prepared and, and not just like having pushed a bunch of stuff to the side and showing up maybe half hungover and, and croaky and stuff because like they deserve it because they’re willing to look at me and listen to me.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: That was where it began.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: And then I realized everybody in my life deserves the same respect.

Yeah,

Breallyn: okay. Okay.

Erik: Yeah. Of, of, if I’m, you know, I, you’re gonna sleep every now and again, these things happen and then there are people there that will kind of be there to lean on if I need to, but I can’t expect to ignore all of these issues- Mm. … and, and bury everything because then I’m just not very good to be around.

Right, yeah. And, and it’s that’s a sort of, that’s a kind of, I just see the kind of, uh, analog of, like performance and, and then, um, and then just life stuff. So I, I tend to say, take a sort of, yeah, pragmatic approach to it and a lot of that is just like, oh, I’ve got to earn so much to keep things ticking along.

So it means like, I remember the first time I got one of my guitar pedals fixed because it was broken, it was this old, another like family thing from dad that had had it just a piece of crap that sat in the thing. I’m like going to, going to take it, get, to get fixed and I’m like, this thing’s been broken for my whole life, so 20 odd years at that point and I got it fixed and I plugged it in and I was like, I’m enjoying the feeling of having got this fixed more than the actual sound of the pedal.

And I went, I can do this with other things.

Lyndon: Yeah, wow.

Erik: Finally got off my ass to get something done because all that, that stuff was really tough. Like I’ve got, I’ve got issues with motivation and- Right. … and, and sticking to tasks. Yeah,

Lyndon: yeah,

Erik: Um, and so pushing past, it’s almost like this abyss that you’ve got to step over to then realize how small it was in the first place.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Yeah. I don’t know if I’m quoting that off the show or

if I talked about that as a friend. No, that makes

Lyndon: total sense.

Erik: Or it might have been something I inferred from a couple of episodes or

Lyndon: something. I don’t know. But yeah, I I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Erik: Yeah.

‘Cause you just, yeah, you look back, like I, I, I often think like, because, you know, nowadays I’ve got a pretty good diet, I think one of, one of the times when I was working down at St. Kilda and managing that business, I’d go and get Schnitz down the road. Oh yeah. Oh

Lyndon: yeah.

Erik: And that was like little yum yum treat if I had a half an hour off or something.

Yeah. And I’m like, that, there’s lots of food in that now that I can’t actually eat because of dietary sense Why did I feel like crap all the time? Right. It might have been that. And even just for me like, yeah, like living on junk food in my

Breallyn: 20s.

Erik: Yeah. Working late, nights and then getting KFC at like certain times of day and wondering why I felt bad.

And now I go, oh, it’s so obvious.

Breallyn: I was poisoning myself on the way home.

Erik: So obvious. I was just like, yeah, you just, you just eat until you’re full. You don’t eat for nutrition. Yeah,

that’s right.

Yeah, because I feel fine because you bounce back more when you’re 20. Yeah, definitely. But now I go like, oh, I’ve had pizza.

Probably going to feel a bit weird for three days.

Breallyn: Yeah, wow.

Erik: And, and I recognize that. Yeah. I’ve kind of got this like hedonistic downhill that’s very steep and that’s, it’s in the family.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Uh, some, not the whole family I’ll say. Yeah. It’s just like, I recognize it as a trait that I’m aware of in myself.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And so I now, I go, oh, okay, it’s pizza on a Monday, then it’s some chalkies on the Tuesday and then I’ll forget that I can’t eat normal cheese or something by the Wednesday and then it’s migraine by a Friday. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And then probably some wine or something along there.

Lyndon: Really just to make sure of it.

Yeah.

Erik: And then before I know it’s like, oh, but yeah, when I was younger it’s like, oh, I didn’t do anything. I’m real healthy. Yeah. Like exercise you get drinking water but it’s like it was crap or-

Lyndon: You look at other people and you go, well they were eating this, this and this and they’re still like, you know- Yeah, they’re fine.

playing footy on the weekend, like- Yeah, but

Erik: some

Lyndon: of them, they’re just bastards. They’re

Erik: like

Lyndon: genetically- Yeah, superior.

Erik: Somehow, yeah, like it just seems, but then you wonder like, are they just having a panic attack in the bathroom at home and not showing anyone?

Lyndon: Oh, right. Yeah, that’s

Erik: right. We

Lyndon: don’t

Erik: know.

Yeah.

Lyndon: We

Erik: don’t know. Yeah, you never know. And that, and I think that, that helped, I guess over the years with communicating with people and getting, getting the best out of an artist or even booking those gigs. It’s like, oh, hey, these are all just human beings. They’re, they’re not, they’re not like- They’re

Lyndon: not the boogiemen.

The

Erik: gig booker isn’t like someone to be scared of.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. Um,

Lyndon: yeah.

Erik: Yeah, they’re just a human and you’ll figure out if they’re a jerk or a legend pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah,

Breallyn: that’s right.

Erik: There’s no middle ground, it’s one of these.

Breallyn: There is that. There’s only one or two. Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Finding Peace Through Music

Lyndon: How important to you is finding your peace and do you think that you’ll be able to find peace through music?

Erik: Well, I, I guess I have had moments of that.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: For sure. There’s a, there’s a bliss to it. Sometimes it’s just comfort sees you through. at the worst times, I’ve had, I’m getting chills talking about it, Frisson is the sound, the word for that.

Oh, right. Oh, is it? Yeah. Okay. Frisson you can get it from like experiencing art or a memory or something like that.

Lyndon: Yeah, right.

Erik: Yeah. I went to see Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds earlier this year and every time I talk about it, I get the chills. ‘Cause it was so incredible.

Lyndon: Yeah. I’d

Erik: love to

Lyndon: see him.

Erik: Yeah. anyway, back to the question.

finding, yeah, finding peace in music. Yeah. It’s, it’s finding, finding as many things as possible as I can in music is the interesting thing.

Yeah.

It’s like I enjoy the problem solving sometimes because it’s so complicated. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and on the, on the other side, just picking up a ukulele and strumming one chord and just going, “Ah.”

It just feels nice. Yeah. Yeah. Or, or, especially with singing, like that’s, that’s really special. And like peak experience for me is hitting a really high note and holding it for a really long time.

Lyndon: Oh, okay.

Erik: Which I don’t have all the time. Right. It’s just those notes and projection isn’t there.

Mm.

But then I, like it was, there were moments in my like mid 20s where my voice started changing growing- yeah. … for the better. Yeah. And it opened up a few more, a few more things. That’s

great.

and some of that was from like, I’d had a really tough breakup and I’d had some more, some more rough things.

Yeah. And then there was like, it was almost like more honesty in my voice when I was singing.

Breallyn: Oh yeah, yeah.

Erik: But maybe that was because of the, the sort of feedback of the experience that I was have whilst singing like- Yeah. … means of communication.

Breallyn: I noticed that with a few of, you know, our, our friends along throughout the years, like voices particularly like pre and post, particularly breakups or, you know, some massive life event, but yeah, relationship changes.

Uh, it’s, it’s a quite amazing what an effect it will have on the singing voice and, yeah, the freedom, once the process is sort of gone through I guess.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t think you can really sing love songs until you’ve had your heart broken. Yeah,

Breallyn: that

Erik: might be proper. Like-

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Something, or, or it doesn’t need to be heartbroken. A, real gutting rough experience. Yeah. It really, it really helps.

Breallyn: Heartbroken in some way,

Erik: shape or form kind of thing, you know, ripped off really badly or like a- Yeah. … again some grief or, whatever, terrible experience. Not saying everyone needs to go through that.

I don’t want it to happen to anybody.

Breallyn: Do you not recommend

Erik: that? Don’t go looking for it-

Lyndon: No. … unless it has, you’ve got no credibility.

Erik: Yeah, that’s, it’s so tough. It’s like, because I, you know, the, you come across people and you’re like, they tell you, nothing really bad’s ever really happened to me. Cool, but it’s, you know- You’re

Lyndon: like, “Think harder.

Erik: There’s gotta be this. ” I

Breallyn: mean- When people, yeah, when I come across people like that, I think- I think it’ll come. One day it’ll come.

Busking in Frankston

Erik: Yeah, I try not to lean on that too much of like yeah, seeing people’s different experience and, you know, the ones that get really nervous when there’s a rough angry person in the crowd or like a dickhead like calling things out.

Lyndon: Oh yeah,

Erik: And, and it might, it might be someone playing on stage who’s like, you know Everything’s gone

Breallyn: well for them in life. To

Lyndon: busk on the streets of Frankston, you have no idea.

Erik: Yeah,

Lyndon: and where you busked on Frankston too, that mall, I don’t know if you moved around, but when I saw you in that mall, I was like, yeah, this is like the epicenter of, yeah.

Breallyn: Where was that because-

Lyndon: Of everything

Erik: there. In front of the Lincraft on, on, because there was Shannon Mall and then the other one- Oh

Breallyn: yeah, the two malls,

Erik: like

Lyndon: we saw you on the corner kind of.

Erik: Yeah, because it was, yeah, into, into Quayside, Bayside of what it was called.

Lyndon: Yeah,

Erik: yeah. So-

Breallyn: Okay, now it’s coming back because I haven’t remember that I’ve seen it.

It’s not

Lyndon: far from the train station and-

Erik: Yeah. So that, that tells you a couple of things. Yeah. but I got, I got to be friendly with a lot of the, uh, say rough folks, which kind of helped.

Lyndon: Yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause occasionally one of them would come up and say, “If you don’t shut up, I’ll smash your teeth in. “

Breallyn: What, would you

Erik: say that

Breallyn: the

Erik: song to a kid And I used to sit on a little camping chair, had like one of these little tripod chairs.

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Erik: And after a while I was like, “Oh, I’m going to be cramped.” And I’m like, “Maybe I can get a strap for the acoustic and stand up.” Yeah. And I was like, oh, I am actually quite tall. Like-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: People stopped threatening me as much, but I don’t look tough. I just was like, oh, I can clearly reach pretty far and I’m holding a lump of wood.

Yeah. Uh, yeah, the, yeah, the threats and the heckling, it toughened me up. I think it’s- Oh, would have to. Yeah. It’s essential in a way, but I think busking’s probably not going to be much of a thing for way longer because there’s just no coins floating around like cash cash is going to out. Yeah,

Breallyn: that’s true.

Yeah.

Erik: And I don’t think people are super confident with tapping their credit card on a thing.

Lyndon: Plus you got to make a choice then, don’t you of how much you’re giving where before you

Erik: could just throw money at clearing your pockets out. Yeah. And, and giving it to the kids as well, that’s always like a huge thing.

Yeah, that’s

Lyndon: right. ‘

Erik: Cause that’s, I mean, that’s something I remember from like Robie who used to play, he was a busker in Frankston when I was a kid.

Lyndon: Oh, that’s right.

Erik: And your parents like, “Oh, here’s a couple of coins and you go to get- I forgot about Robert.

Lyndon: Blond hair guy.

Erik: Pretty tall.” Robin McVean.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: Far out. He was like, I mean, that was full-time. He was

the

Erik: busker,

Lyndon: yeah. Yeah. He was good.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: Wow.

Erik: Yeah. But yeah, I got, yeah, I got to know some of the, the ferals. I’m allowed to say that because I’m from down there.

Lyndon: So yeah.

Erik: Yeah. but yeah, getting friendly with them actually real help because then if there was some other angry dickhead, they’d be like, “

No, no, he’s all right.”

Yeah, yeah, he plays some of this, you know, give him a couple of

these. Yeah. Just

Lyndon: wait a while. He’ll play something you know.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s cool. What time, how old were you when you started busking?

Erik: Would’ve been 15 or 16.

Breallyn: Yeah, wow.

Erik: I guess.

Breallyn: Okay. Yeah.

Erik: It was just I’d go there after school.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s pretty brave to just kind of go, I’m just gonna head on down.

With my guitar and play.

Erik: Yeah. I get, I just, I took a lot of it for granted. I mean, until, until I had some trouble sometimes, like, like somebody got really angry at me and booted my guitar case across the street- At one point, but I was lippy.

Lyndon: Yeah. Oh right, there’s another side to this.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah. But I was also in a heightened state.

Okay. So I was like in the flow playing some songs and being interrupted, I didn’t like that. No. Who does? And he said something to me, I said something to him, he processed it for about two minutes and he walked all the way to the end and he was like, “Wait a second.” That was a good comeback and like came back and he’s like, “What do we?

Yeah, the case kicked a hole in my guitar case. It was all full of coins. Oh yeah. But I just counted.

Lyndon: Yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause I wouldn’t pack them away when I counted it because you, there’s a whole thing in busking, you’re like, you gotta leave some money out so that people know that this is what you’re doing and they’re like, “Oh, they’ve, that person’s put two bucks in.

Yeah, he

Breallyn: must be good.

Erik: His whole thing, yeah. So I’d just counted it and then this guy was right in my face and I’m not a fighter. So I was like, “Mate, you gotta calm down. This is not good.” He’s like, “Go and throw a punch, all that stuff.” There’s a thing in Frankston, like, if you threw the first punch, you’d be the one get in trouble.

I think that was like that got around. Yeah. Like if you ended up in court, oh, well, you threw the first punch. So people would just like scream in your face to try and get you to start the fight. I believe

Lyndon: they thought that was how the law worked.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: Actually I can believe that.

Erik: Maybe, maybe that had happened to someone in a court case that’s like, yeah, well, you threw the first punch, but yeah, what did you say to him?

I think

Lyndon: it’s more just like a moral thing.

Erik: Yeah. So I wasn’t gonna start it. Also, I was holding my guitar, which I didn’t want to break. Yeah,

Lyndon: yeah.

Erik: And I also didn’t want to get punched in the face.

Lyndon: No.

Erik: Um- No. And so a, few people just sort of hung around. So he punked himself out and walked away and all these people came up, oh, and they’d picked up all the coins.

Breallyn: Oh.

Erik: I counted it again, exactly the same.

Breallyn: Oh, really? Yeah. That’s good. That restores your faith in

Erik: humanity after that. Oh, that’s some silver lining right there. And so yeah, it was like an enriching experience- Yeah.

and busking.

From Busking to Weddings

Erik: So, I kept doing that until I, I started getting asked to do weddings and stuff and come and play in, rugby clubs and whatever like that, and, and I was terrified of that. I was like, “I don’t have a PA system. I don’t know what I’m doing.” Oh yeah, right,

Lyndon: yeah.

Erik: You know, I don’t, I’ve just got a, a acoustic guitar that doesn’t plug in.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And, no skills on the audio side of things. I’m like, oh, okay, if you’ve got the stuff I can show up and … And

Lyndon: did they have the stuff?

Erik: Sometimes. Yeah. And then eventually I, I was like hiring some stuff and then a friend had a PA was getting rid of and then it was just over the years, like things like that happened.

Breallyn: As you do, yeah.

Erik: yeah. So I did some weddings pretty early on. Mm. That’s so cool. I’m like, oh, that’s pretty special.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Very humbling experience as well.

Breallyn: It is- Well, people remember that forever, don’t they?

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: You

Erik: know,

Breallyn: their wedding.

Wedding Song Dread

Erik: I learned a lot from the very first wedding. I used to tell it as like a joke story, but it actually, yeah, almost made a dick of myself-

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Erik: doing this wedding because, because they’d seen me, they were this really lovely couple.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And they, they’d seen me busking for a really long time. And they’d often come up and comment on songs that I’d played. “Oh, you playing like Beck and like The Cure and like all this sort of stuff. oh, I really like that one.

And then they came up and asked me to play their wedding and I was like, oh yeah, cool. So we got sort of emailing and figuring stuff out and I was like, ” Oh, if you’ve got a bunch of artists that you like, I’ll just see, you know, if I can get a few in the, in the repertoire, you know, maybe just send me 10 bands and I’ll, and I’ll, I’ll have a go.

I’ll, I’ll just see what I can get together. Um, and they send a list of three specific songs.

Breallyn: Oh, no.

Erik: Which I, I really didn’t, uh, resonate with say. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: At the time, I read the email and got the hot embarrassed feeling.

Breallyn: Oh, yeah. Oh.

Erik: Like the, oh God, like, got to

Breallyn: do it.

Erik: Just like stressed out. I was embarrassed- I had that feeling, yeah.

reading the email to myself. Yeah. And so, and so I kind of, I kind of had a gauge on the complexity of these songs, but there was one in particular which just made me cringe to every-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: atom of my being.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Like I’d spent years telling people how much I hated this song kind of thing, one of these ones like, oh my God.

And so I wrote a gentle email back to them saying, “Hey, if you’ve got any other artists, that’d be, that’d be good.” Um, I’m, I’m pretty cool with those first two, but that third one, I’m, I’m, I don’t think I can really do it justice.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And no, like it is, it was actually the simplest musically to learn. Like it would have taken me two seconds to learn it and because I hated it so much, I, I knew it.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Oh yeah, yeah. I probably knew all the words. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ‘Cause, uh, I’d have to sit through it, um, different times and, uh, or I, or what’s the thing about like, like people enjoy things they hate in a way like

Breallyn: kind of love to hate it.

Erik: I love to hate it. Yeah. So I would have watched the whole thing to really know how much I- Much you

Lyndon: hated it.

Yeah.

Erik: I can’t remember there’s like a kids have a word for it these days of like rage baiting or something like that. Something like that. anyway-

Lyndon: Those kids.

Erik: Yeah. Yeah. All their

Lyndon: words.

Wedding Song Standoff

Erik: And so and so they, there they’d emailed back saying, “Oh, yeah, that’s okay. Like we’re a bit disappointed that’s like, um, a special song, but I’m like all…

Lyndon: There’s other special songs.

Erik: I’m like, yeah, cool. Yeah. But they’re like, yeah, we’re happy to proceed, all good. And so, and then I was out busking one day and the, and the bride to be walked up and like just did that routine again, like, oh yeah, it’s like disappointed you’re not going to do, doing that song and like it’s kind of special.

And as she walked off, I was like,

I have to learn that song.

God damn it.

Lyndon: She’s not

Erik: going to, she’s not going to tell me, mate, we’re paying you.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: But she’s, but she was, you know- She’s

Lyndon: kind of, yeah.

Erik: in a passive aggressive kind of way.

Lyndon: Yes, 100%.

Erik: But in the nicest possible way, but in the way that was like definitely like sticking the knife in and going like you dick head what are you doing?.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah.

Erik: So she was just walking off. I’m like, oh, Eric, you’re going to have to learn that. God damn song. And so I got home and I, and I, and I’d only gotten into one of them. you’ve noticed I’m just tactfully not saying what the names of these songs are because I don’t want to split the audience.

Lyndon: No, I think you should say it for sure. All

Erik: right.

Lyndon: Like at the right time.

Erik: Yeah, yeah.

Learning The Cheesy Trio

Erik: So I’ve started going into the other two songs. One of them, very easy and actually not too unpleasant to play. Yeah. So, Ronan Keating-

Lyndon: Okay.

Erik: Yeah. Um, when you say nothing at all.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it’s a handful of chords.

It’s got a almost like Irish folky kind of feel to it. Yeah. Like I think it even has pipes in the original recording. So I’m like, I can kind of vibe with this.

Lyndon: yeah,

Erik: yeah. But just doing the voice was like funny to me. So I’m like, because I do like to ham it up and you know, having talked about the Kurt Cabane stuff.

Lyndon: Oh

Erik: yeah. I do like impersonating voices trying that as a skill. so I got through that one with no problems, right?

Lyndon: Yeah. He’s still doing that song.

Erik: Fair play to him.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And so on, on to the next one, uh, Brian Adams.

Lyndon: Yep, okay.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Everything I do, I do

Lyndon: it. Yeah. So

Breallyn: I’ve gone for all the romance.

Erik: Just from the Robin hit, the Robin Hood soundtrack. And I’ve gone into that and I’ve, I’ve, I loathe that song still to this day.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: and I’m going through it and that, this is the second song, right? so not the third one that I’ve asked not to play.

Lyndon: Oh.

Erik: It gets to the bridge of the Brian Adams song, I’m like, oh no.

Why didn’t I ask to not do this one?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Now I have to do all of these because I reckon I could have got away with not doing this one.

Lyndon: Yeah,

Erik: yeah. Because it’s, it was actually more complicated to play as well. Yeah. Like, it’s, it’s-

Lyndon: Has a key change in it or

Erik: something, doesn’t it? Key change, big, big vocal notes.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: there’s a bit more to do in it, right? And so, and then I finally get to Snow Patrol Chasing Cars at the end of it. Oh,

Lyndon: yeah.

Erik: I part of the re- I don’t think they’re ever going to hear this, but yeah, the side of the story. But, uh, they, uh, this is 20 years ago. 20 years ago.

Lyndon: What if, what if Snow Patrol hears it?

Erik: Yeah, I’ll never get that support gig with the poor man’s Cold Play. Um, and so- Definitely now. And so funny. And I’ve just gone through it and I’m like, and it was, it was really easy to learn and I’m just going through it and I’m like, I could really ham this up and sing it exactly like the guy does.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And I, I work my way through it. I’m like almost crying with embarrassment. Again, just in front of myself. Yeah. Right. I’m like, how can you do this? Trying everything. Yeah. Like I grew up watching Beavis and Butthead.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: If you hear a song you don’t like, you immediately say, “This sucks.” And you don’t really need to explain why.

No, that’s right. Yeah.

You knew me in my Beavis and Byte stage, I was doing the voice all the time driving everyone nuts.

Yeah. Um-

It was fun.

First Dance Surprise

Erik: And, and so I got, I got to the wedding and I’ve set up, I’ve got the PA and I’ve, come in and they’d, they were the sweetest people. They were like really nice Christian families on both sides, like very like- Yeah.

Very, um, friendly and warm and opening, open and like, and gentle. And they’d, they’d even like, “Oh, we’ve had a, we’ve had a guest canceled, like we’ve actually got a meal for you. ” And like I’m like, “Oh okay, cool. I didn’t realize that I should have asked for that in the first place.” Yeah. It was like it was nice for them to do that.

Yeah. So I got to sit at one of the tables and have a feed and stuff and so I’d decided not to tell them that I’d learnt-

Right. …

the Snow Patrol song.

Yeah. Surprise.

I was like,

oh yeah, surprise them.

And so it finally gets to playing that and I start playing it and they recognize it and look at each other and go, “Oh, he’s doing it.

And

they got up and did their first dance to that song. Wow,

Breallyn: really? Oh. And

Erik: I’m just standing there like just, you know, putting as much feeling into it and inside going, “You are such a dickhead.” Like why, like, to be fair, they didn’t make it clear- Yeah, they didn’t tell you. … how important it was. Yeah.

They just sent me a list of three songs.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah.

Service Industry Reality

Erik: nowadays I know when I’m booking a wedding, is there a first dance song you want me to do?

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah.

Erik: But that was a surprise to them and they got up and do- doing their first dance and I’m like, “This is an incredibly beautiful moment that I get to be part of and, and help.”

And I’m like, “You just gotta do it. ” Yeah. Like what? Especially a wedding. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Just keep, just, make everyone happy. Make the bride happy.

Lyndon: Yeah. You know?

Erik: Yeah. Make sure you shake hands with the, all the family members and be nice and all that sort of stuff. And yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: It was again, very humbling and-

Breallyn: Everything’s so good in that, yeah.

Yeah. Situation. Uh, that’s full on. I mean, it’s such a lesson, but yeah. It’s like you do have to put aside yourself in that sense to be, you know, really embody- It’s not about me. Yeah. Yeah, it’s not about me. Yeah.

Erik: Yeah, that’s the thing. Just suck it up and do your job sometimes.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Essential Services Banter

Lyndon: Well, I was talking last, I was talking last week about, you know, that we’re in a service industry.

You know, and that’s, that’s a really good example. Some would say an

Erik: essential service-

Lyndon: Yes. Wouldn’t they? I don’t want to bring them back to that. Not many. Whereas essential as, uh, some of the, uh, women you might have seen in St. Kilda, the ladies of the night. That’s, from the COVID days, that’s-

Breallyn: That was essential service.

It was, yeah, wasn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. Sex workers were essential. Yeah. No,

Lyndon: were they?

Erik: Yeah.

Breallyn: Well, it was, wasn’t it? Wasn’t that the

Lyndon: big thing? No, no. I think what I-

Erik: There were, there were issues with it. There were limitations because some of them are, there’s dif- there’s problems with registration. I

Lyndon: love that we’ve gone there.

Who got us onto that sort

Erik: of- I don’t mind. I support them, by the way. That’s

Lyndon: pro,

Erik: yeah. Prep pro.

Lyndon: yeah, you, you support them in-

Erik: An ethical sense.

Lyndon: Yes.

Breallyn: How, how many times a week do you support?

Lyndon: I should clear that up. I support them every Friday night. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, no, no. When, the, when there was that list of, like, what is an essential service, musicians and prostitutes were at the bottom-

Erik: Oh, that’s right.

They were right, you are right. This is what you’re getting at.

Lyndon: They were righ

Erik: next to

Breallyn: each other. Sex workers now too. You’re not seeing prostitutes. Yeah, yeah, sex workers.

Lyndon: Sex workers.

Erik: Yeah, yeah. You edit that if you want. Yeah.

Lyndon: No, that’s staying in. Yeah. ‘Cause you’ve

Erik: learned lessons. You’ve learned something new.

Lyndon: I’ve learned something new and I am speaking for the every man.

Breallyn: Okay.

Erik: Yes.

Lyndon: who isn’t up to date.

That’s

Erik: all right. Far ahead, really.

Frankston And Seaford Roots

Erik: Like, this is … Occasionally it’s like you can take the boy out of Frankston, but you can’t boy. Because I had learned when I moved north side years ago.

Lyndon: Like

Erik: I realized how standardly crass I am.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Just as, a foundation.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And going like, oh, that does actually freak people out. Like-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Really dark, dry-

Lyndon: Right. …

Erik: sarcastic humor.

Lyndon: Okay.

Erik: It doesn’t quite wash with people.

Lyndon: Maybe I did pick up some of that from my Frankston days. You

Breallyn: definitely did. That’s why I’m always trying to smooth things over once you’ve said something terrible.

Lyndon: Breeze from sort of like the northeast.

Yeah,

And I, I did do, um, I did do, um, my time. I’m trying to think of an analogy with jail, but I did my time in Frankston. Well, we, when we’re, early days of our marriage, we lived in Seaford.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: Not far from where you were, um- But that’s why you

Erik: were teaching.

Yeah,

Lyndon: yeah, violated.

Erik: Well, yeah. I say I’m fromFrankston, that, that’s rounding off.

Breallyn: Yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause I am from Seaford. But I think all my busking tenure counts for something.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And I worked, I worked in Frankston at, Guitar Village, teaching for such a long time. Yeah,

Lyndon: Guitar Village.

Future Plans And Goals

Breallyn: I was gonna ask, Eric, you’ve done so many different things, like throughout your music work. Do you have certain things now that you’re like, “Oh, I really wanna get the chance to do this or I wanna, you know, explore that or what does the future hold for you?

Erik: Yeah, I mean, one of my goals right now is to finish all of my work that I’ve started. And so that’s really just getting into the cave- Wow. … and getting it done.

Breallyn: Great.

Erik: I’m gonna go off on a tangent but-

Breallyn: This is albums and even

Erik: something like that. Yeah, there’s a lot of unfinished stuff.

So I really, I really have a view of like a couple of EPs and, and singles that I wanna get done. but more, more collaborative projects- mm-hmm. … I wanna work on. one of my bands is talking about going to Edinburgh for Fringe this year, but- Oh yeah. … that’s something that would really be a, a step up.

Breallyn: Yeah. Okay.

Erik: Yeah, there’s just certain types of work that I wanna try- Okay,

Breallyn: yeah. …

Erik: I guess, but think I’ve gotten to a happy medium with like teaching, Yeah. And then live sound is really the next thing to get more into.

Breallyn: Yeah, right.

Erik: as far as like a big next thing, I’m, I’m really just doing maintenance on a lot of my, my little projects at the moment.

Breallyn: Yeah,

Erik: yeah.

just getting music out and then touring a bit more would be nice.

Breallyn: Yeah. Sounds good.

Erik: Yeah.

Defining His Musical Projects

Lyndon: Now how would you describe your musical style, like when it comes to your original music? It’s quite diverse, isn’t it?

Erik: Well, having all the different projects,

Lyndon: that

Erik: was good. ‘Cause I think early on when I, when I started bands, I was trying to fit all of the different styles into one project, and it’s just really- Yeah.

scattered for people that I’m working with.

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Like you kinda, if you wanna do a rock band, you get a good rock drummer and you get-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: you know, someone that can cater to those things.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: electronic stuff, I’ve got Tender Thorns, which I do with my friend Jackie, she’s a jazz drummer.

Lyndon: Okay. Yeah.

Erik: Who’s into like playing with synths and, and sequences and stuff. And so we just get together and like mash sounds together and then I mix it and put it out.

It’s like interesting process.

Lyndon: Oh, that’s cool. Cool.

Erik: But I used to try and incorporate electronic elements into like the solo stuff and-

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: Yeah. And I just go, no, this is actually just a totally different- It’s a different thing. … identity for me. Yeah. It’s like, because there’s the kid that grew up with the Hendrix and the Led Zeppelin and the Stones and-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And then there’s the other side that was like New Order and-

you know, watching Blade Runner over and over again and all the kind of synthesizer stuff. Yeah. I mean, and The Cure to a certain extent with that as well. Yeah. Like hearing, hearing synthesizers and arrangements with that stuff. And we had like Severed Heads that was like one of the bands we were listening to.

Yeah. Aussie electronic thing. Yeah, just experimental stuff. So I guess yeah, like genre wise and now like having all these different projects, I need something where I can get up and like rock out with my guitar and scream my head off.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And then I need something where I can like dial in knobs on a synthesizer for hours and go like, oh yeah.

And you have to, you have to take a photo of the synth because it’s all knobs to remember where everything was. Yeah. Yeah. And then the preamp settings and all these sort of things. Yeah. Something I can just bathe in as a kind of therapeutic-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: thing to a degree because that, that project really came out of, uh, one of maybe the second lockdown-

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: years ago.

Lyndon: Yep.

Breallyn: Yeah. They’re very wildly diverse things really.

Erik: Yeah. And then, and then the other band that I’m in Father Daddy-

Lyndon: There’s another one.

Erik: Which is the one. Yeah, this is a, so this is a band where I’m just, I’ve, I’m, part of the band, but I’m basically just a session dude-

Lyndon: Right. …

Erik: where I’ve come and learnt songs and I play the shows and get paid and it’s good.

Lyndon: Oh, that’s nice.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: Father Daddy.

Erik: Father Daddy. So it’s another kind of cabaret-

Lyndon: Okay. Yeah. …

Erik: themed thing. Um, so we did Melbourne Fringe last year and a, and a few rock shows and that’s, that, that project’s sort of still working out its identity because it’s this like fruity cabaret thing, but then rock band.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: You know, at the same time.

Lyndon: That’s nice. …

Erik: trying new things out.

Yeah. And it’s like, I think when I was younger, I was like, no, it’s just gotta be a rock band. I wanna be famous rockstar-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: one band, my songs.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And now I go like-

Lyndon: Everyone’s a bit like that, yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Collaboration Over Ego

Erik: And now I’m like, “Ah, there’s so many like chances for collaboration.”

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And often now like there’s, every musician knows you have that chat with someone over a beer, it’s like, “Oh, we should, we should be doing something together one day, you know, yeah.”

And then you have that chat for 10 years every time you have a beer with them. And now if someone asked that question, I’m like, “Yeah, what are you doing next Wednesday?”

Lyndon: Right. Yeah.

Erik: Okay. It’s like let’s put this in the calendar right now, sure, something comes up on the day, no problem.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: But you just gotta-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: gotta go with it, not like, “Hey, I’ll get back to you. “

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah, because it will never happen. It

Erik: will never happen.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah, it’ll be years, and then you’re like, “Oh, something interesting could have happened there.”

Lyndon: Yeah, you’re doing heaps of collaboration. I don’t think I know anyone that’s collaborates as much as you.

And so that’s your secret.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: You, you make people commit

Erik: Well, I used

Lyndon: to- You have a beer with someone and go, right?

Erik: It used to be so scary to me.

Lyndon: Yeah. ‘

Erik: Cause I was shy and, and insecure.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: The idea of showing up to someone’s house to, like, run through some stuff, I was like, they’re either gonna think my songs are crap-

Lyndon: Right.

Erik: or I’m gonna show up in a bad mood.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Or I’m gonna be intimidated by how good they are.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah.

Erik: And, or I’m gonna think they’re crap because I’m a jerk as well.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: And there’s gonna be this weird imbalance. Yeah. And, and there’s never just like, “Hey, it’s just a person.” Just hang out, just hang out and find common ground.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: This is the thing, I spent a lot of time at like jam nights and things and I think that’s really helped. I’ve actually recognizing other people how insecure they are even if they had the skills just to get up and play. And on the other hand of that, me getting on stage with someone who I know is in a different

Lyndon: strata

Erik: or whatever, you know, or of skill and years and study and all these things.

Yeah. And they’re like, “Yeah, cool. Yeah, he’s the chords.” Like-

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Find something that you can play with them rather than worrying about what you can’t play with them. Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. and I, in that, I get to hang out with people where I get to watch them play and go, “Wow.”

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. Not, I can’t do that.

It’s like sweet. I’m in a room with someone who can do that.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Who wants me to sing along or whatever.

Lyndon: I have heard that of, um, wanting to be like, the dumbest person in the room or the, you know, like the, the least able because you learn the most and you get to have your front row seat to- Yeah.

you know, to the magic that’s happening and it’s, um, it’s actually a really, really healthy, way to, to view it, it gives you that, it gives you the opportunity. I mean, if you don’t think about that way, you don’t get that opportunity-

Erik: Yeah. …

Lyndon: you just wouldn’t be there.

Erik: Yeah. And without ego, being on the other side of that, when you know you’re, you’re the magic that someone’s-

Right. …

Erik: aspiring to or something, like that’s a really special-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: feeling.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: You know, that to, to make someone see that it’s attainable-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: or achievable with, time and practice, dedication, but to see

I didn’t just wake up playing guitar- Yeah. … or singing well one day it took a long time.

Lyndon: Yeah, it’s come from somewhere and, you’ve always been curious too, haven’t you?

Erik: Yeah. But I, I think curiosity as a skill can be learned.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: So to encourage it in other people of like- Yeah.

it’s just experiment.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Yep.

Erik: Experiment simply, I think, if it’s at the start.

Yeah.

Wrap Up And Next Time

Lyndon: I reckon we need you back on at some point there. I

Breallyn: think we will. It’s definitely once you’ve, finished your

Lyndon: next- We

Breallyn: know there’s a couple of little projects or whatever Yeah.

Lyndon: We also know there’s like eight or nine other topics.

Breallyn: Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, barely got to it.

Lyndon: Oh, cool, man. It’s been awesome having you here. It’s

Erik: been really fun.

Lyndon: Yeah. Has it? Oh, good.

Erik: I like to ramble these days. This is something that took me a long time to figure out.

Lyndon: What, that you like to ramble?

Erik: Yeah. ‘Cause I used to just ramble inside my head. Ah.

Lyndon: And

Erik: then-

Lyndon: Yeah. Now

Breallyn: you’re, now

Erik: you’re

Breallyn: expressing

Lyndon: it. It’s so important though, isn’t it to get it out? Otherwise

Erik: it’s- I used to be scared. I used to be shy because I was worried if I say too much, someone will think I’m stupid.

Lyndon: I still rehearse stuff in my head though for conversations that I’ll never have. I still do that and I have to pull myself up and go, “What are you, doing?”

Erik: Yep.

Lyndon: You know, like it’s, this, scenario that you’re working on is never gonna happen.

Erik: You’re anticipating a conversation that’s, gotta be fluid anyway at the end

Lyndon: of it.

Yeah. Or, or that, yeah, or for something that- You won’t

Breallyn: deliver your lines

Erik: perfectly

Lyndon: anyway. Yeah. For something that was in the past and like I’m just thinking about, if it was happening again, I don’t know, it’s, it’s-

Erik: I totally get that.

Lyndon: It’s

Erik: nonsensical. You know, I talked about that primary school teacher.

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Erik: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So winning arguments with him in my head for 30 years and I go, “Ooh, I hope someone else tries that on me because I’ve got an answer.”

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: I just gotta, I let all that go.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s a skill to let it go. Yeah. It took me ages to not rehearse those things

Erik: in

Breallyn: my head- Yeah, really?

Yeah, yeah,

Erik: yeah.

Lyndon: So we’re all the same.

Breallyn: Yeah, we’re all

Erik: the same. I’ve been housemates over the years, like, oh, you stole my avocado. It’s like-

Lyndon: It’s always an avocado.

Erik: You know, oh, I’m gonna wait two weeks and then bring it up. You know, why don’t you just say, “Hey, man, can you just replace that? “

Lyndon: Avocado.

Erik: Avocado ate the other day.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Erik: Simpler

Lyndon: way. They are a, they are a precious commodity.

Erik: Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, full of things.

Breallyn: I know.

Erik: I had a housemate who would, who would steal the avocado, eat half of the avocado-

Lyndon: Yeah. …

Erik: and then just leave the remaining half just out on the bench.

Lyndon: With the p- with the stone in

Erik: or- Yeah, yeah.

So still like nice, fresh avocado and an hour later it’s- Brown

Breallyn: when you come home. Yeah. Yeah.

Erik: I think-

Breallyn: And that’s disrespectful as well as thievery, yeah.

Erik: Yeah. It’s

Lyndon: not just the

Erik: Hi Pete-

Lyndon: I don’t

Erik: know if that’ll make any.

Lyndon: Oh, I’ll try to.

Erik: I was, I was the thinking about Nate, I was gonna talk about rental as a, pain in the arts kind of situation. Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s been a, that’s been an ongoing problem for me over

Breallyn: the years. Oh, housing. Yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, yeah.

Breallyn: Housing for artists.

Erik: I got some insight on that.

Lyndon: yes. Well, this is what we’ve got to look forward to-

Breallyn: Yeah. …

Lyndon: on a future episode.

Breallyn: Definitely, you’ll definitely have to come back. Well- Great. I, I, um, remember you just being Lyndon’s favorite student and being like a, you know, this- I did come- … Little- I’d

Lyndon: come

Breallyn: back and I’d tell him- You just tell me about Eric who just vibrant and talkative and everything.

So now to see you as a, very empathetic, measured, you know, intelligent person, like it’s lovely to see you kind of- I’m glad I’m presenting

Erik: that way.

Lyndon: He’s, got us all fooled.

Breallyn: It’s gonna rip out a limerick and shatter the illusion in h second now. I’ll,

Erik: I’ll, I’ll bring that book in next time- Okay. Oh wow. I’ve got the original little workbook that Lyndon wrote all my lessons down in afterwards.That’s

Lyndon: amazing.

Erik: I remember doing Limp Bizkit.

Lyndon: I’m actually scared. Oh really?

Erik: Yeah, I was, uh, because I, that was a phase that you had to suffer through me wanting to learn Limp Bizkit songs.

And I remember you’d written down the name of the song and then instead of writing Limp Bizkit down, you wrote Soggy Cracker.

Lyndon: That, tallies up- That is true, yeah. That, that’s exactly, I’ve, yeah, there you go. I’m, I’m, I’m still doing champagne comedy like that.

Breallyn: Our kids of that doesn’t have to do that, but it was dad doing stuff like

Lyndon: Yeah, guilty. Yeah,

Erik: every time a new new Limp Biscuit song and you just went “Waaaahhhhh”, because that was one of the vocal stylings of, uh, of Fred Durst did a lot of that.

Lyndon: Yeah. I did actually enjoy teaching. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve, um-

Erik: No, I’ve been through it too.

Lyndon: I did enjoy it, but at some point I was like, “I do not wanna be a career teacher,” So yeah, anyway, the end of this show. Thanks for coming in.

Breallyn: Thanks

Erik: Hurrah.

Breallyn: Yay.

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