May 12, 2026 · Episode 67
1 Hr, 0 Min, 02 Sec 

Summary

On this episode of Pain in the Arts, Gretta Ziller talks songwriting, streaming economics, and the unlikely road from opera to Americana.

Gretta Ziller grew up on a farm in regional Victoria — violin at three, bagpipes at boarding school, opera at Melbourne Uni — until her sister put on a Garth Brooks album and rewired everything.

Now she’s an Americana artist, who’d rather sell you a $2 download than earn a fraction of a cent on Spotify.

Also: there’s a new Chihuahua named Eleanor Rigby.

Visit Gretta Online

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Transcript

Gretta: I feel like I’m being interrogated. Yeah, that’s right.

Breallyn: Yeah, yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, ’cause there’s two of us and we’re, like, two part… We should sit next, should we sit next to each other?

Gretta: Who’s the good cop, who’s the bad cop?

Lyndon: I’m definitely the good cop. Oh. I, I, I’m the slow cop. I will nick you eventually.

Gretta: When I get round to it.

Lyndon: I play the long game.

Breallyn: Watched way too many Nordic TV dramas. Detective shows. Yeah,

Lyndon: Well, it’s awesome to have you here, Gretta.

Gretta: Well, thank you for having me!

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah.

Gretta: Thanks for asking.

Welcome and Meet Gretta

Lyndon: Welcome to Pain in the Arts, where the pursuit of meaningful art meets the demands of real life. I’m Lyndon.

Breallyn: I’m Breallyn, and we are joined by a lovely guest today.

If you could introduce yourself.

Gretta: My name is Gretta Ziller.

Breallyn: Yay. Woo!

We have Gretta joining us, which is such a treat. Gretta, can you give us just a quick, like, insight into your, who you are, like what your music, what you do, so that those who don’t know can kinda get up to speed?

Gretta: Yeah.

What Is Americana

Gretta: So I’m a songwriter and performing artist, um, in the Americana genre. So it’s a little bit rock, a little bit blues, a little bit country, a little bit folk.

Breallyn: Yes.

Gretta: A bit of a meld of everything, and we call it Americana music.

Lyndon: That’s so funny. Is there an Australian version of it? Australiana?

Gretta: Yeah, there is, but it’s more along the bush ballady line. Like

Lyndon: Slim Dusty?

Gretta: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Australian-centric. Americana is a actual official term. It doesn’t mean that it is American music, it’s just-

Lyndon: Right

Gretta: yeah. Mm.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah. And it’s quite popular-

Gretta: Yeah …

Lyndon: over here, isn’t it?

Gretta: Yeah, it really is. Yeah, yep. Yeah. It’s just Australians tend to have a little bit of a uh to the title of the genre. Yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, really? Is that true?

Gretta: Yeah. Yeah, ’cause they d- ’cause, you know, if you don’t, didn’t know what it was- Right … like, you’d think it’s just American music, but it’s- Oh, okay

Lyndon: not

Gretta: necessarily …

Lyndon: which could mean anything,

Gretta: couldn’t it? Yeah, yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. True, true.

Breallyn: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, it has that country twang to, to the word of, like Americana. Like

Gretta: Yeah … it has that And it, it does, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that th- Yeah … that you have to have country leanings. In Australia, sort of there’s a whole lot of us that do, but you know, like The Alabama Shakes are- Mm

Americana, and they’re, there’s- Mm … nothing country about them.

Lyndon: No, not at all. Yeah. What would be some typical Americana sort of, ‘Cause it’s such a broad camp though.

Gretta: It’s such a broad camp. Like- You know, Steve Earle is considered Americana. Um, like Tom Petty-

Lyndon: Yeah …

Gretta: is, is now considered Americana.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, I guess he

Lyndon: wasn’t, was he? Like back

Gretta: in the day. Yeah, there, there wasn’t, there wasn’t a word for, for what he was. Right. Yeah.

Lyndon: Interesting.

Gretta: It’s a new sort of term.

Lyndon: What about Sheryl Crow? Yeah. She’d

Gretta: fit into

Lyndon: it, wouldn’t she?

Gretta: Yeah. Nowadays she would, yeah, definitely. Even though- It’s that adult contemporary genre that we sorta don’t have here, ’cause we don’t have the size market.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: Right.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: Do you think it’s a growing market though? Like in, in terms of awareness and popularity?

Gretta: Yeah, I definitely, I definitely do. Like especially in the bubble in Australia where I sit, where it’s- Mm … you know, there’s a lot of us that ha- have country lean- leanings or come from country back- backgrounds and, um, we aren’t tiny shiny or br- bro dudes.

And never plan on being that. So there’s a Thank goodness for that … there’s a, oh my gosh, I would make a terrible bro dude. You’re not a bro.

Lyndon: Um – Me too.

Gretta: Yeah. You know, we’re, it’s kind of the opposite to, you know, pop country. Like Americana- Yeah … is kind of a little bit more gritty, a bit more dirty, a bit more real and honest and- Yeah

earnest and- Mm … real instruments and less sparkle. Mm.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Lyndon: Mm.

Breallyn: There we go. Yep. Love that.

Gretta: And well manicured beard, for seys.

Breallyn: Yep. And I think that’s something that does appeal to a lot of Australians, is that- Yeah … more honesty and, and rawness- Yeah … in, in music and just in life in general really.

Like- Yeah … yeah, that it’s not so polished and- Mm … uh, yeah, so I, yeah, I feel like that would bring a lot of authenticity from the audience as well as from the performers. Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s not that it’s not polished, it’s just not that level of production and that, you know, radio top 40 shine- Mm

that is on a lot of stuff.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Mm. Yeah. ‘

Lyndon: Cause like, yeah, ’cause the production for, Americana still, like it’s, you know, it’s very like good-

Gretta: Yeah, it’s brilliant …

Lyndon: it’s br- yeah, I think it’s brilliant. It’s really good. I think it’s great. Yeah. But I know what you mean. Yeah, it hasn’t got that, that sort of pop,

Breallyn: um, shine.

It’s got like the artistry and all of the craftsmanship in the, in the- Yeah … creating of the music and producing of the music, it just doesn’t have like that trying to be- Pretend and trying to,

Gretta: yeah Yeah, like if you listen to like, you know, your top 40 stuff at the moment or even if like you listen to your pop country stuff, and then like…

And I’m not bagging it because- Mm … there is a huge market for it. And there’s still great songs in that But it all has the same sheen over the top.

Breallyn: Mm, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Gretta: Like it’s all the same sound. Like, I could not tell the difference between anyone at the moment because they all kinda sound the s- not that I go out of my way to know the difference between anyone, but they go out of their way to be all the same, and it’s the same formulaic writing.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah. The same safe subjects and-

Dynamics and Space

Lyndon: I tell you what I like- Yeah … about, about Americana and the recordings is the space and the dynamics. Mm. And I think that’s potentially what we’re hearing is lacking in some of that sort of when we talk about top 40 sheen, it’s like- Yeah … the dyn- everything’s sort of really squashed- Yep

and compressed. And so- Yep … you know, really quiet sections aren’t allowed to be really quiet, and- Mm … I think this might be one of the reasons why the genre is really well-suited for doing like, uh, you know, community halls and- Mm … house concerts and things like that is b- Yeah … it’s partly because, you know, the audience w- they, they want that.

It’s like you’re talking about realism or honesty, you know. Mm. And you c- you can, you know, you can play off mic-

Gretta: Mm.

Lyndon: Yeah … and be as quiet as a mouse and, and, and then get sorta louder as, um, as the song needs. And- Yeah … and people um, that’s what they want, and that’s- Mm … what the song wants.

Mm. And it doesn’t have to be killed with, you know, overproduction. So I think that’s why it’s st- it’s really skilled to be able to record, that- Mm … you know, folk music or Americana music-

Gretta: Mm …

Lyndon: even certain country music, like where that’s, where the songs are allowed to breathe, you know.

Gretta: Yeah, and they’re allowed to h- like each section’s allowed to have its moment, um- Mm … when it, when it’s not in like that formulaic writing. Mm. Like, I’m just thinking of one of my friends Clint Wilson released a song recently, and if… I wish I could remember it off the top of my head, where it’s mostly solo.

Right,

Lyndon: yeah. Yeah.

Gretta: Like it’s mostly instrumental. He sings a bit, but it’s these big, beautiful solos. Oh, fantastic. And it’s a stunning song. His- Yeah … his moment in it is really short. Yeah. Yeah. But you wouldn’t find that in a, in a pop country song at, at the moment. Right. You know, you, you’re at the chorus within the first, you know, 25 seconds.

Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah, and he’s clearly not writing it to sorta get it on radio.

Gretta: No, he’s not- You know … he’s not aiming for pop country radio. Like- Yeah. That’s, that’s the thing, too. It’s- Mm … you know, we have two stations that are pop country focused-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: in Australia. Yeah. So why focus the t- in my brain, like why focus on those two stations- Yeah

when there’s everyone else?

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

Gretta Origin Story

Breallyn: Gonna ask you, Greta, if you could give us a little bit of a, I a brief history of Greta Zilla and the amazing things that you’ve done, ’cause I’m, like, astounded at your, the range of m- instruments that you play, and just the, the kinda different, I dunno, hats you wear and the things that you do.

So yeah- Yeah … if you could tell us a little bit about it.

Gretta: Well, I grew up in regional Victoria on a farm. And I think my parents figured out pretty early on that I was not going to follow in my parents’ footsteps and become a farmer. Okay.

Breallyn: What gave them

Gretta: that

Breallyn: idea?

Gretta: Uh, you know, picking up every single instrument I could get my hands on and being in la-la land for most of my youth.

Breallyn: Aw. Sounds adorable. Um, yeah.

Gretta: Well, my parents were suckers for punishment. They, um, they encouraged me to learn violin when I was three. Mm. Nice. So I’ve been playing violin since I was, like, a baby. Wow. And then, um, I did piano for a little while with Snow Hanley, w- the lady- Wow … that lived near- Snow … her name was Snow Hanley.

Ah. Uh, she lived just around the corner from my primary school in Granya. Anybody knows where that is? It’s in the middle of- In the middle of nowhere … Um, and then I got sent off to boarding school ’cause there sort of wasn’t an option, and I learnt bagpipes and was in all the choirs and played double bass and all the things.

Yeah, so

Lyndon: boarding school, they’re teaching bagpipes?

Gretta: Y- yeah, my s- the school that I went to had a pipe band.

Breallyn: Wow.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: So more than one student chose to take up the bagpipe.

Lyndon: I was just thinking, like-

Gretta: There was a whole heap of us, yes … ’cause, like,

Lyndon: If you’re thinking about, like, boarding school and people, like, students, uh, having to, like, I dunno, sleep and study- Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah …

Lyndon: why would you introduce bagpipes?

Gretta: you don’t play bagpipes all day every day. No. Goodness, no. Um, yeah, so the school I went to had a pipe band and yeah, that was really cool. Yeah. And I, and I got to be in all the choirs and all the things. Pretty much the only thing I wasn’t in was the boys’ choir.

Like- Yeah … I was just a big musical geek. I did all the musicals and stuff. And then my, you know, finishing year 12, my, my parents were like, “I don’t know what you do,” and my- … my music teachers were like, “Well, go to Melbourne Uni and study voice and do a- Okay … bachelor of music.” And so that’s what I did. Mm.

Yeah. Like, just because I didn’t have anyone around me saying, “Oh, you could do this, you could do that.” Yeah. “Maybe you could go this way or this way.” I

Lyndon: can relate

Gretta: to that as well. Um, I just didn’t have any, like, musical help other than- Mentors and, yeah … yeah, musical mentors- Yeah … that, that had experience music outside of, like, the classical genres.

So I did a- Mm … a bachelor of voice at Melbourne Uni and, Was

Lyndon: that good?

Gretta: Yeah, it w- it was good. It’s g- gave me a great foundation. But also, like, the amount of hours I spent at uni were, like, nothing, because they expected- You know, you’d practice eight hours a day, and as a vocalist, you just can’t do that, so-

Lyndon: Oh, okay

Gretta: you know, I had jobs and did stuff and- Oh … bummed around Melbourne.

Breallyn: Yes. Uni student life.

Gretta: Crazy. Yeah, uni student life. That

Lyndon: actually sounds-

Gretta: It was pretty good looking back now.

Finding Country Music

Gretta: Um, and then, um, my, I had to move home and, uh, after I finished uni, and it was kind of this weird thing where I was in my final six months of uni and my sister was living with me in a little apartment in St.

Kilda, and she’d just finished year 12 and was waiting to, to start her ag degree at Dookie, and she started listening to country music. And-

Lyndon: Okay …

Gretta: I s- she s- she was listening to, like, Garth Brooks Double Live and stuff like that, and I, it just, like, it hit me. It hit me right in the heart where I went- Wow

“That. That is it.” Oh, okay. Like, I’d been learning, like, all these opera pieces and classical music pieces going- Right … “Oh, that’s what you do. It’s just what you do.” And then I, I like, it still, like, that album still brings me to tears this day, to this day because, I don’t know, just the sound and the stories and the emotion just got me and I went, “I wanna do country music.”

Breallyn: Wow.

Gretta: And so I s- What a moment … suffered through the end of my degree. And- Oh, you

Lyndon: had six months

Gretta: of- I still had, like- Uh-huh … six months of- The hard six months … singing in Italian. Of,

Lyndon: of, of Rigoletto.

Gretta: Yeah, pretty much. And yeah, then I moved home and learnt the guitar, and I ended up teaching bagpipes at the school I went to- Oh, wow.

Cool … for many years, and I was in a old time music band, and I started songwriting and then discovered Tamworth and started that journey going every year and entering all the- Mm … competitions and doing the things that you gotta do. And-

Breallyn: Yeah …

Gretta: yeah, and here we

Breallyn: are.

Gretta: Wow.

Breallyn: Wow. That’s amazing, ’cause I’d- What a transition

in, yeah, it is a transition- Mm … ’cause in my mind, I’d been thinking you grew up in the country, so country music. No. But not at all.

Gretta: No, I grew up my mom was a massive- music fan. Mm. And so I grew up listening to, like, uh, Sarah Vaughan and Edith Piaf- Oh, okay … and, um- Mm … Billie Holiday- Oh, wow … and Ella Fitzgerald and- Mm.

Breallyn: Yeah …

Gretta: all the, you know, those soul singers. Mm. And with a little bit of classical music and Rage every Saturday Yeah. When it was good. Of course. Yeah. But- And,

Lyndon: and Recovery. Remember Recovery? Yeah, I remember- Did you

Gretta: watch that? … Recovery, yep.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Um, and yeah, so I didn’t grow up listening to country music.

Looking back now I can say, oh, well, I actually… Like, one of my favorite albums when I was a kid was, like, the Horse Whisperer soundtrack- Mm. Okay … which is full of country music. Yeah. But I didn’t know that it was country music. Yeah. Like, there was no- Yep … you know how people have these weird prejudices against country music?

There was n- there was not even an acknowledgement that they were different genres. Like, I didn’t understand- Yeah … genres- Right … until I was in uni . Like- Yeah … it was just what I liked and what I didn’t like.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah, okay.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Well, thank goodness for your sister.

Gretta: Yeah, yep, I do. I thank my sister and Garth Brooks.

Breallyn: Yay.

Lyndon: Oh, that’s awesome.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s lovely, like, you know, it’s like a, a falling in love type story of, like, how you kinda came to the music that really speaks to you. Yeah. And now you obviously are writing songs and speaking to other people through it- Yeah which is really amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

The Self Managed Artist

Lyndon: Can we talk about the other string to your bow, or strings to your bow?

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: Which is the self-managed artist.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Mm. Uh, because that’s the other side of the equation. and in some ways it’s, I mean, it, it’s just a different challenge, isn’t it? Yeah. So how, how have you gone about that?

Because, because you’ve been doing this for a long time. Mm. Um, so, do you wanna just, uh, maybe shed some light on, on where you’re at with that And, and just that journey.

Gretta: Yeah, it’s, it’s a s- funny thing that I, I sort of don’t feel like I’ve actually managed myself until the past couple of years.

It’s kind of just been hoping for the best and-

Lyndon: Yeah …

Gretta: like, panic. But yeah, it was, it wasn’t really until COVID where I, where I f- we, you know, we were all forced to stop. Mm. Mm. And, and in that stopping, I really did this massive emotional and yeah, emotional reset- Mm … of, like, what I wanted and what I wanted out of life and music and coming to terms that that didn’t actually or necessarily align with the people I had around me.

Okay. And then that was okay. Let them do their thing, and getting used to the idea that them doing them- their thing wasn’t me missing out.

Lyndon: Okay. Yeah, true. And

Gretta: then I think that was, like, a, the, the big turning point into me, you know, kind of being self-managed th- then because I was like, “No, I actually wanna be on this path,” and then I needed to focus on doing that- Mm

and making those things happen. And yeah, and it’s been, you know, a big learning curve, and I f- felt like the longer you’re in the music industry, the lonelier you get because everyone ends up doing their own path, which is great. Mm. Mm.

Breallyn: Oh, okay.

Gretta: But there isn’t sort of, unless you make it, there isn’t a community of people doing their own thing coming together and saying, “Yeah, I’m doing this, this month,” and- So there’s not that

Lyndon: camaraderie

Gretta: there, it, there sort of seems to be a lack of it, especially when you’re, when you’re doing it, you know, all by yourself. I started- Mm … a group last year, the start of last year, where we meet online once a month. It’s just five women. We meet online once a month, and we talk about what we’re up to, what we’ve got going on, and w- we’re just there to encourage each other and help each other out if we need, like, an email address or an idea or something or whatever.

Mm. Mm. Like, it’s really cool. Like, now I feel like I’ve got a community, and I’m focused on what I’m doing, and I know what I wanna be doing, and- Mm … yeah, you know, you, it takes time to gather, to first learn what you want and then gather the people around you- Mm … to help you just keep going. Mm.

Breallyn: Mm.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. I was gonna say, that might change over time as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, especially as you’re talking about, you know, you’ve gotta make those choices along the, the line of, like, th- this path kinda ends here, but I’m taking this other route.

Gretta: Yeah …

Breallyn: over here. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Gretta: And it’s, and it’s not, you’re not losing one.

You’re gaining another. Yeah. And, and, and you’re putting your blinkers on a little bit more- Mm … going, “Yeah, that’s cool that that person just won that thing.” Mm. “But that’s not what I’m focusing on,” even though, you know, the, the little green monster Yeah. Comes up, and then

Lyndon: it’s like, “But I should’ve or could’ve,” or- I could’ve,

Breallyn: yeah

Lyndon: “Or why

Gretta: didn’t

Lyndon: I?” Yeah.

Gretta: Like, it’s, yeah, you just gotta remind yourself that- Yeah … no, that’s not, that’s not for you right now.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And how much of, of that is discernment, and how much do you sorta run on just gut feeling or instinct when you’re making some of those decisions?

Gretta: Yeah, I guess, I don’t know, I don’t know.

I know. I sound like I’ve got my shit together, I really don’t. I just, you know, I know what I want, and then if, you know, an opportunity comes around that, that I can’t make wo- make work, then, or it doesn’t f- you know, fit to what I want- Mm … then you c- you have to say no. Like, it’s just-

Lyndon: Right …

Gretta: one of those things.

Yeah. Mm.

Lyndon: So you’ve had to have a good no on you as well.

Gretta: Yeah. Gotta learn to say no to the things- Mm … that don’t fit- Mm … or, like, you can’t m- make yourself fit into.

Lyndon: Right.

Gretta: Because then they’re not, they’re not for you. Mm.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: Mm, interesting.

Making Your Own Yes

Breallyn: The other flip side of that coin having a good no is a, is a really good thing, but having a a way to make a yes happen.

Mm. Like, that I’m sort of interested in that too because, yeah, I, I understand from, you know, speaking to a, a bunch of different musicians, you’ve, if you’ve got an idea or you’ve got something that you wanna achieve or whatever, y- not like, it’s not there for you to just pick up. Like, you’ve gotta make it happen.

Yeah … you’ve gotta plan it out. You’ve gotta pretty much invent it and then- Yep … take ownership of it.

Gretta: I-

Breallyn: Yeah. How do you do that?

Gretta: The way I do it is I talk about it to everyone because then- Wow … I have to do it.

Lyndon: Oh. Psych yourself into it.

Gretta: If everybody knows about it and then you don’t do it, you look like a bit of a dickhead.

Lyndon: That’s the exact same reason I don’t tell anyone about it.

Gretta: Yeah, see, I, I never used to.

Long And Writing Road Project

Gretta: And- Yeah … like, so I did a project that I called the Long and Writing Road. Mm-hmm. And it was in, it, it was a 12-month project where I co-wrote a song a week for a year.

Lyndon: That made me tired every time I thought about it!

Gretta: I was exhausted. Oh my gosh.

Gretta: But I spoke to people about it for six months before I started- Right … because then it made me start. Otherwise- Yeah … I would’ve just been, like- Yeah … wishing people would write with me, staying at home and not talking to anyone. Oh, yeah. So I was like, well, stuff this.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: The only person that’s gonna wanna write me- with me are the people that I ask- Yeah until I become known as a songwriter, and then people will ask me to write songs with them. But the only way that they will know that I am a songwriter if I, is if I write songs with people.

Breallyn: Yeah, yeah,

Gretta: yeah.

Lyndon: So she’s done exactly what you were saying, Bre. That’s so smart. She’s invented-

Breallyn: Yeah, invented

Lyndon: invented something.

Breallyn: Yeah. And then embodied it and-

Gretta: I did it …

Breallyn: yeah.

Gretta: Well done. And then nearly died. You need a

Breallyn: six-month rest,

Gretta: talking to no one. Oh, oh gosh, it, it really was. Like- Mm … I started, ’cause January’s normally a write-off for, for me because of Tamworth. So I started- Mm … February 2024.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: And I finished February 2025.

Mm. And then for six months I did nothing- No … ’cause I was so exhausted. ‘Cause you know what it’s like editing a podcast. I was editing film- Yeah … putting up it on social media. I was making a three, two, three-hour s- Co-write 20 minutes long- Yeah … on a- Yeah … on a video. So yeah.

Breallyn: That does sound exhausting.

Gretta: It was exhausting- Yeah

every week.

Breallyn: Mm, yep. Without a break, you can’t

Gretta: just go- Yeah, no break … “

Breallyn: I’m not doing it this week”- Yeah … ’cause you’re on your 52

Gretta: weeks.

Lyndon: Yeah. I’m on a deadline. It’s a lot. And you had no one sort of doing the editing or anything?

Gretta: No, it was all me.

Lyndon: Oh my gosh.

Gretta: Yep.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Gretta: That’s good. It’s- Can edit video, though.

Lyndon: Yeah, I bet.

I know, we all- Wow … we all want teams around us. How do you get a team- Oh, I don’t- …

Breallyn: to do

Lyndon: all this? They don’t

Breallyn: exist. No, we are our teams.

Gretta: They don’t exist.

Labels and Doing It All

Gretta: And the hard thing is, is like even if you do have a team, like I’ve been signed to a record label, they don’t give a hoot.

Lyndon: Oh.

Gretta: They’re still

Breallyn: waiting for you to- Yeah

Gretta: do the legwork … you’ve still gotta do it all. Yeah. Like, you know- Right … I still had to remind them to do the basic stuff- Oh, that would be- … that they should’ve done Wow So you’re still- So you’re- … managing people …

Breallyn: not only just self-managing at that point, you’re managing the

Gretta: label- People- … that’s supposed to be-

that should be helping you Yeah And like the way that they were helping me wasn’t doing e- really anything that was outside of the box that they were used to doing stuff in. So, you know- Oh,

Lyndon: yeah …

Gretta: I don’t fit in a box. I don’t sound like anyone else. Mm. I don’t make music that’s exactly the same as anyone else.

I’m not tiny, and I’m not shiny, and I’m not, you know, dude bro. Right. So I had to- I’m so

Breallyn: glad you’re not a dude bro.

Gretta: No. Just wanted to- I’m pretty glad I’m not a dude bro, too I

Lyndon: don’t even know what a dude bro is, but I’m- You know … I’m getting really curious.

Gretta: He looks like, to me- Manicured beard … he might… Oh, God, this- I did hear that

this sounds so bad, but in my brain- It

Lyndon: sounds so judgemental, Bre … it is.

Gretta: It sounds so judgemental, but like if you- … can imagine an AI image of a c- male country artist- Yeah … that’s what they all look like. Mm.

Lyndon: Well, appar- apparently on Spotify now, 43% or something of what you listen to is AI music- Oh, that’s not good

anyway, and you will see those pictures-

Gretta: Yeah, yeah …

Lyndon: of perfectly manicured- And

Gretta: you, you won’t know the difference …

Lyndon: country music bros

Gretta: And they’re… Yep. Anyway. Yeah. So

Lyndon: that’s

Gretta: what we need to- Bless them in their future endeavors

Lyndon: Yeah …

Breallyn: lean into, is our humanity and how

Lyndon: imperfect- Our humanity … we are. Yeah. AI can’t do a house concert.

Gretta: No, that ca- no, it can’t They

Breallyn: can’t.

Lyndon: You know? It

Gretta: can’t. No. Maybe in a virtual house.

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right. Mm. Did I get us off track? No,

Breallyn: I think that’s me. That’s all right.

Gretta: What were we

Lyndon: talking about? Oh, no, we were talking about, yeah, about, uh, about- Us … the label not sort of being, um, very creative, really.

Gretta: Yeah.

Not, not creative, and I, you know, with those releases, I kind of lived in fear whether, you know, things were being done or whether it was being received or who was responding to emails. Like, I had no-

Lyndon: That’s

Gretta: not cool … control over, like, what radio it was being sent to or-

Lyndon: Why? Do-

Gretta: Because they c- Why was that?

Big… Oh, because they ha- use their in-house publicist Like- Oh, right … and, and so I do my own publicity. I do absolutely- Mm … everything, so I know who sees the email, I know who reads it, I know who downloads it.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: I respond to everyone that says, “Thanks.” Yeah. But

Lyndon: how come they weren’t sending, like, figures to you or even sort of showing you some- It’s just not done

of the back end information?

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: Just not done.

Gretta: Yeah, it’s not done.

Lyndon: Yeah. It’s just- Oh, that’s not cool. Yeah.

Managers and Admin Reality

Lyndon: And have you ever had management?

Gretta: I have for a little while, and I do miss that.

Lyndon: Mm. Mm.

Gretta: Someone on your team- Mm … and someone that really cares.

Lyndon: Right, yeah.

Gretta: Yeah. It still makes me sad that Dave stopped being a manager.

People

Breallyn: stop-

Lyndon: What? Oh, you- … chewing.

Gretta: Sorry. She’s sniffing.

Lyndon: Sniffing, that’s all right.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: Don’t worry about it. It’s not for you. I thought I saw a little bit of…

Gretta: No, no, no.

Lyndon: Um, can we talk about that or, or not? Yeah,

Gretta: we can talk about that.

Lyndon: So what, what, what’s the story there? I’ve, I’ve got no- Oh …

Gretta: knowledge of who this is or what happened

yeah, so he, um… So I was being managed by a gentleman, um, by the name of Dave Parker for a little while, and- Right … He manages Colin Buchanan s- still, I think, or sort of. Mm. Mm. And he was in charge of the Slim Dusty catalog and Doy McKean estate. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think he still is in charge of that now, but, you know, managing an independent artist is a lot of work and a little money.

Lyndon: Mm. Mm.

Gretta: Um, and- Yeah … yeah, he moved back into corporate world and just didn’t have time for me. But it wasn’t, like, anything that-

Lyndon: Yeah …

Gretta: you know, anything went down between us. Like, it’s… I still- Mm … catch up with him when I can, and-

Lyndon: Yeah …

Gretta: yeah, lovely, lovely man. But it was really, really wonderful having someone on your team- Mm

rooting for you. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. And it takes- Believing … a special person to be a manager, doesn’t it? Yeah. Like, I remember being told the person that’s got the skills and the credentials to be a manager or to be your manager- Mm … can earn so much more money in the corporate world- Yeah … that, you know, they

You know, for them to sort of- Slum it. … to turn their back on that and, and manage- Yeah … an artist- Yeah … Especially an independent artist, it’s, Also,

Gretta: like, in the industry- Yeah, it’s a lot … in Australia, like, especially the, you know, countries side of things, everyone knows everyone, so is there a point to having a manager?

Mm. Like, if I have access to the head of ABC Country-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: why would I need a manager? It’s just, yeah. Why would I need a publicist?

Breallyn: Mm.

Gretta: If I have access to the writer for Country Town-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: Why do I need a manager? If I know the b- The person, the books, Gympie Music Master

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: Why do I need a manager?

Lyndon: Yeah, they’d just be doing admin following up so that- Yeah

you don’t have to- Yeah … it, it, there’d be that sort of role, wouldn’t it? Yep,

Gretta: yep.

Lyndon: Which suddenly isn’t really- Management … management, management. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. It’s admin

Gretta: Yeah. Yeah, admin assistant.

Lyndon: So you need a… Yeah, that’s right. You need a, a PA. That,

Gretta: that actually would be really good having a PA. A PA

Lyndon: that could- Yeah

that could do video editing.

Gretta: Yes.

Lyndon: How good would that be?

Gretta: Oh.

Lyndon: Is it?

Gretta: So good.

Lyndon: But then you gotta- You can hire them by the hour … you

Gretta: gotta pay ’em. Yeah

Lyndon: Then you gotta pay ’em.

Gretta: If anybody out there wants to do that for free- Yes … sign me up for

Lyndon: that. Oh, yeah.

Gretta: Or solid high fives.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

Breallyn: Free album once in a while.

Gretta: Yeah. You can come to all my shows. Yeah. Do my merch. So

Breallyn: you won’t be there for doing nothing. Yeah. Just

Gretta: doing

Lyndon: that.

Seed Fund Mentorship

Lyndon: And staying on the self-managed theme-

Gretta: Yeah … ‘

Lyndon: cause I think we can talk about this. Tell me if we can’t.

Gretta: Okay.

Lyndon: The Seed Fund.

Gretta: Yeah, we

Lyndon: can talk about this. We can talk about that, can’t we?

Gretta: I know nothing yet.

Cool.

Lyndon: It’s been announced.

Gretta: It’s been announced. So- I go, I go in at the end of May-

Lyndon: Mm … to

Gretta: start it.

Lyndon: How long Durkin- I don’t know what Durkin- … Durkin’s been going for 10 years, or maybe not as

Gretta: long … it’s long- longer, I think. Longer? Oh, really? ‘Cause I think I’ve been applying for 10 years.

Lyndon: Okay.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. Oh, you better explain what it is for, um, for Bre-

Gretta: So The Seed Fund is for, is a is the brainchild of Mama Kin who is probably more well, unfortunately more well known as John Butler’s wife.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: And sh- it is a 12-month mentorship for artist managers and self-managed artists to learn how to better manage- Oh, wow … um, and get connections and, you know, work together to-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: to just raise, raise everyone up. Yeah. That sounds

Lyndon: amazing. Yeah. They don’t hand these things out to anyone though, do they?

Like, it’s pretty-

Gretta: No,

Lyndon: it’s pretty- Like, pretty, uh- …

Gretta: hard to get into … yeah. I’ve, I’ve applied multiple times- Mm. Yeah … throughout, throughout the years. Yeah.

Breallyn: Wow.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: That does sound great, and what I love about it is it has that that feel of community helping one another- Mm-hmm … which we’re, we’re just touching on that.

Yeah. That can be lacking sometimes, so- Yeah … yeah, that sounds incredible. I’m so

Gretta: excited

Breallyn: about it. Yeah. So you start soon, do you just say?

Gretta: Yeah, yeah. Oh,

Breallyn: fantastic. Well-

Lyndon: Where do you have to travel for that?

Gretta: We do a week in Katoomba, I think it is, in there. Okay. Oh, nice. And then it’s online- Mm … for the rest of the year.

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. Oh, that makes sense. Mm. So it’s like,

Gretta: So it’s- …

Lyndon: a boot camp for a week- Yeah … in the Blue Mountains.

Gretta: Yeah

Lyndon: That’s, that’s Katoomba, isn’t it? Oh, no. Is that Blue

Gretta: Mountains? Uh, is it Katoomba? Kiama. Kiama, the other one.

Lyndon: Oh, Kiama. The other K. Yeah,

Gretta: yeah. The other one. I

Lyndon: didn’t even know. Where’s Kiama?

On the coast?

Gretta: Katoomba’s that way- Kiama’s that way-

Lyndon: Oh, okay … from Sydney. Oh, yeah. Out,

Gretta: and then

Lyndon: down- Right, okay … Kiama’s down.

Breallyn: Oh,

Gretta: yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Beautiful. Yeah.

Breallyn: Fantastic.

Lyndon: That’s a lovely part of the world, too.

Breallyn: Do you have, like, certain things in mind that you want to, like, I don’t know, get from that experience, or ask when you’re there, or things- Um-

you wanna achieve?

Gretta: Yeah, the, I get, yeah, there are a couple of things. I-

Breallyn: Or more just, like-

Gretta: I- …

Breallyn: see what they have to say type

Gretta: thing … see what they have to say, but I also really wanna, talk to other people and, and f- you know, develop the skills to really, like, put manager hat on. Yeah. Mm. And not just be awkward me via email.

It’s like- Oh. Yeah … ’cause I don’t know, like- … it’s, that’s a, it’s a hard thing. It is. It’s a hard

Breallyn: slog, isn’t

Gretta: it?

Email Voice and Pseudonyms

Gretta: It is, and I think being female makes it extra hard because unless you are, like, really aware of it, you end up being unintentionally passive.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, okay. And,

Gretta: yeah. Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s interesting. Passive, more apologetic.

Gretta: Yeah. More kind

Breallyn: of, “Hey, I’ll just work around

Gretta: you.” “If you wouldn’t mind,” Yeah … “could you please? I was wondering if…”

Lyndon: So it’s a real language thing-

Gretta: Yeah … you’re, that you’re aware of. Yeah. Oh, so aware of it. That you have

Lyndon: to-

Gretta: Yeah, I- …

Lyndon: avoid, or a language that you need to employ …

Gretta: I have to pretend that I’m a man- Right

when I write an email. Yeah. Wow. That’s a good tip. I want this. Can you do this? Yeah. Oh,

Lyndon: okay. Yeah,

Gretta: yeah,

Lyndon: yeah.

Gretta: Which is not my natural state. Yeah. Yeah. My natural state is to be, “Oh, like, like, well, I wouldn’t mind if you could, like, possibly,” that- Yeah … “if you’ve got 10 minutes it’d be great.” Right. Yeah, yeah.

Instead of like, “Can we do this?” Yeah. “At this time.”

Lyndon: Yeah. And my rider is…

Gretta: Yeah. Yeah. Even my rider’s passive. If it’s available, we’d love to be fed. If it’s…

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

Gretta: My drummer doesn’t eat fish, if that’s okay. Is

Lyndon: that true?

Gretta: Yeah, he doesn’t. And the one time I forget, we got fed fish. Oh, no.

I will never forget again. Sorry, Matt. He,

Lyndon: yeah, he will never let you forget

Gretta: that. He

Lyndon: will, he doesn’t.

Gretta: Yeah. I imagine.

Lyndon: do you have a email that’s, like, management@gretazilla?

Gretta: Yes, and I- … I actually, ’cause I’m such a nerd, I actually work under pseudonyms, under, like- Oh, yeah … different hats.

Breallyn: Suzy from gretazilla.com or something or…

Gretta: No. No, my, so my publicist, her name’s Kathleen.

Breallyn: Kathleen.

Lyndon: Kathleen.

Breallyn: Oh.

Lyndon: That’s

Breallyn: a better

Lyndon: name

Breallyn: than

Gretta: Suzy. Yeah.

Breallyn: Kathleen,

Lyndon: yeah.

Gretta: Kathleen, yep. And she has her own email address.

Breallyn: Yep.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Kathleen@boomtown- Yeah …

Lyndon: pr.com.

Breallyn: Fantastic. It’s a, it’s a really good strategy, and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, um- Yeah, even in-

Lyndon: So you do

Breallyn: have a team

my world of copywriting-

Gretta: Yeah … I do have a team Just my own

Breallyn: brain

Gretta: They’re all in your head. Yeah. My manager’s name’s Ronnie. Oh, nice. Ronnie. Yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, and he’s got bleached blonde hair.

Gretta: But Ronnie could also be a girl, so who

Lyndon: knows? Oh. That’s true. Ronnie, true. Yeah. Or like Alex. You could have an Alex on your team.

Alex,

Gretta: yep.

Country TV and Channel 31

Lyndon: Did you… Remember that show Herman’s Head? I loved that show. No. Did you? Oh, you wouldn’t have got that in the country.

Gretta: No. If it wasn’t on

Lyndon: ABC. You only got AB- Pretty

Gretta: much …

Lyndon: is that true?

Gretta: Yeah, and Prime.

Lyndon: Yeah. Wow. That’s all, yeah. ‘Cause when I lived out- No, and

Breallyn: not, that’s not the Amazon Prime, that’s like the- Yeah

Prime regional Prime. Yeah, regional

Gretta: Prime.

Lyndon: Regi-

Gretta: yeah. With, with Prime Possum

Lyndon: and all. I was, I was confused. Yeah, out in the bush we only had ABC as well. Yeah. And when I came to Melbourne and there was like 7, 9, 10-

Breallyn: Yes …

Lyndon: and SBS.

Gretta: Wow.

Lyndon: And then there was like-

Breallyn: Spoilt for choice …

Lyndon: some other local one. What was it, what was that local one?

Channel 31. Channel 31. I was like, “What?”

Breallyn: You were on Channel 31- Yeah, I was

Lyndon: on Channel- … back in the day … yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gretta: Don’t put this on the podcast. It’s community country music for you.

Instagram Photo Fails

Gretta: It’s so funny. Oh. It cracks me up. Like, you will send them a press release with your latest photo, your artwork- Oh, no … links to the things, everything proper. They will go onto your Instagram and pick a photo of you holding your cat- … and use that.

Like, that has literally happened to me.

Breallyn: Oh, no. I just crack up. Professional standards.

Lyndon: And you’ve, like, traveled to New South Wales to get your photos done. Yeah. All that kind

Gretta: of thing. And- They’re professional- Yeah … photos that were emailed in their inbox. Yeah. Mm. And they choose to scroll on my Instagram down months of just drivel to find a photo of me and my cat and think, “Yeah, that’s the one.”

Lyndon: ‘Cause they love cats.

Gretta: Not with her.

Lyndon: I know,

Gretta: it’s

Breallyn: so funny. It

Gretta: just cracks me up. Yeah, I’ve had- It doesn’t make sense … yeah, me and my cat, I’ve had, like, a selfie used. Mm-hmm. Um, I also had somebody use the very first photo of me professionally taken that was, like, many years ago.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: Used. Oh, no. Instead of the photo that was in the email.

That

Lyndon: kind of matches the- The song … artwork and the song. Yeah. Yep,

Gretta: yep. Uh-huh.

Lyndon: So hang on. So how much of that isn’t in the podcast? Um- Where, where, where’s the-

Gretta: We can talk about the photos.

Lyndon: Where’s the edit- Just in case … where’s the

Breallyn: edit point? Up to you to create

Lyndon: one.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, so many funny stories, though, isn’t there? Oh. Like, in the- It’s

Gretta: brilliant. Mm.

Lyndon: It’s nearly like we look for these stories just to kind of- So

Gretta: good …

Lyndon: so we can have a, a little bit of sanity through the- Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah … s-

Lyndon: through the craziness.

Awkward Radio Interviews

Gretta: And it’s just- People being people, it’s wonderful Yeah And if you- Yeah

you can’t get offended because it’s just funny. Like, I’ve had radio people call me up during their show and interview me, and it’s taken me five minutes to realize I’m on the show- You’re on … and I’m being interviewed. You’re on

Lyndon: air.

Gretta: Yeah, it’s so funny. That-

Lyndon: They’re

Gretta: like, “Oh, I just thought I’d give you a call.” Mm. I’m like, “Oh, yeah,

Lyndon: how’s it going?” Almost, almost, almost feels unprofessional.

Gretta: So funny. Just call it

Breallyn: spontaneous.

Gretta: So funny. I’ve, I’ve had people ask me about, like, really personal things on air. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. I’m like, “Uh, uh- Mm

vague answer here.”

Lyndon: Wow.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: What do you do afterwards, just punch on?

Gretta: Yeah, you just go, “Whatever. Okay, cool.” I’m not the only person they’ve done this to.

Lyndon: Like, I guess what makes everything awkward is that all these people, like, you know, just mining your Instagram for a, for a photo or-

Gretta: Uh-huh …

Lyndon: you know, r- calling you up out of the…

They’re all fans- Yeah … aren’t they? Yeah,

Gretta: yeah.

Which is, like- They’re all- … you can’t be mad at them. Like, they’re- Mm … you know, r- 90% of them are retirees. Mm. And they’re doing it because they love the music, and they love connecting with artists. And- Mm … they pr- play your music, and it’s wonderful. Like, community radio stations in Australia are wonderful for artists- Mm.

Yeah … because they just wanna support you.

Lyndon: Mm. Yeah,

Gretta: that’s it. Which is so true. Yeah, that’s it. Awesome. Full stop. Yeah. They wanna support you.

Breallyn: A- and to build that whole community and- Mm … you know, like, show what they love to other people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah. Very cool. It’s just sometimes really funny.

Making Music Pay

Lyndon: What does it take to sustain a career as a musician, or as an artist, let’s say I think- … day and age in Australia?

Gretta: I think for most of us it means that being an artist is one branch of what you do.

Lyndon: Right.

Gretta: Mm. It’s nigh impossible for that to be the only thing.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: Um, you know, touring is, takes its toll. Like, it’s a lot of time and energy and risk.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: Um, at the moment you know, songwriting and producing only earns you a certain amount. Mm. If the song gets recorded and then played, like, that’s a gamble, being a songwriter.

Mm. Mm.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Um, yeah, so it takes, you know, doing a- all sorts of stuff. Like-

Lyndon: Yeah …

Gretta: yeah. You know, it’s, it’s a small business.

Lyndon: Right, yeah. Mm. So you’re wearing many different hats and-

Gretta: Yeah, yeah. I do many different things.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: Do you think it’s- Even like more difficult in terms of the emotional side of that because it’s about you and your music.

Mm-hmm. You know, the music obviously, it’s, it’s such a part of who you are. You know, you pour your heart into it, and then you have to market it like it’s a- Yeah … a service or a, a product.

Gretta: Yep.

Breallyn: That, like, how do you find, like doing that emotional work with that? Because I feel like that would be a very heavy lift.

When Songs Flop

Gretta: It’s, it’s hard especially when you have your heart set on the success of something-

Breallyn: Yeah …

Gretta: and that doesn’t necessarily happen. Like, I had a song that I was like, “Yeah, this is the one. This is the one.”

Breallyn: Mm.

Gretta: Like, it’s really good. Mm. And then it did absolutely nothing.

Lyndon: No.

Gretta: Absolutely nothing. Yeah. Like-

Lyndon: Oh, was that while you were signed or after?

Gretta: While I was signed. Oh, that stinks. There was a wh- And there was a whole lot of stuff going on in the background that I didn’t know about- Right … until after the fact, and then I went, “If I had’ve known-

Lyndon: Yeah …

Gretta: I would’ve just done it myself.”

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Mm.

Lyndon: Oh

Gretta: my And pushed it myself, but I was like, yeah, I was believing that the label would do stuff for me.

Mm.

Spotify Makes It Old

Lyndon: And how long- And care … how long is that window of, like when you release it to when you need it to sort of be, you know, getting airplay and distributed and, and being able to support it with live shows? Well,

Gretta: as soon as Spotify touches it, it’s old. Mm.

Lyndon: Right.

Gretta: Like-

Breallyn: Yeah,

Gretta: what’s your

Breallyn: next thing?

Gretta: Yeah. What’s the next thing?

Yeah. Cool.

Lyndon: As soon as it’s on Spotify, it’s old.

Gretta: Yep.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Yep.

Lyndon: Wow.

Gretta: When it’s radio, you’ve got a couple of weeks.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: Yeah, and it just did nothing, and it still breaks my heart ’cause it’s… I think it’s a brilliant song. Yeah. I think it’s a-

Lyndon: Which song? Can you say?

Gretta: Ain’t Even Your Lover.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: I think it’s great.

Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it’s kind of Haim-esque and-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: yeah, real-

Lyndon: Yeah, it is. That’s true. It actually is.

Gretta: Yeah. That’s a

Lyndon: good… Yeah, that’s a good, uh, reference.

Gretta: Yeah, I thought it was gonna do something in the- Mm … like the, you know, the pop rock space.

Lyndon: Mm. ‘

Gretta: Cause I had- Yeah, it’s a

Lyndon: crossover song,

Gretta: isn’t it, really, for you

yeah, I sort of branched over that way- Mm … a little bit more with some of my recordings, ’cause, you know, I grew up listening to that stuff, and I- Yeah … was just like, “Yeah, let’s do this.” What album

Lyndon: is that on, just so people

Gretta: can- Um … hear this … All These Walls. Yeah. Yeah. But it didn’t go anywhere. Mm. And that’s okay.

It’s okay.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Gretta: My- It deserved

Breallyn: it. Let’s just say that …

Gretta: my philosophy with all my recordings is tho- is that if I can still be proud of it in 20 years-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: I’ve done good. Yeah. Mm. Even if it’s done nothing-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: it still sounds good- Yeah … and still sounds like a quality bit of music and a quality bit of art.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: It’s fine.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. It’s a really good way to have that long approach-

Gretta: Yeah …

Breallyn: to it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah Yeah.

Lyndon: Well, I think that that would be, like, enviable to sort of get to, you know, later stages of life and just be able to look back on a back catalog- Yeah … and, and just see the work that you’ve done.

Especially knowing, too, that, you know, I mean, you know what it takes to do the work-

Gretta: Mm …

Lyndon: and then promote it and market it. Like, it’s, it’s a long game, isn’t it- It is … for you to sort of be able to get to a point where you actually have, like, a back catalog. And I mean- Yeah … you’ve got an enviable one at the moment, really.

Don’t you think? Oh. I think you have. Well, the, well, there’s a- I do … there’s a few albums and singles you’ve released- Yeah,

Gretta: yeah,

Lyndon: yeah, I’ve got a- … in, in a, a relatively short time.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: I would, I would’ve thought.

Gretta: Yeah, I guess so, yeah. I just keep doing it. Like-

Lyndon: Yeah …

Gretta: I don’t know Keep looking

Lyndon: forward

Gretta: The, the-

Lyndon: Mm

Legacy Through Art

Gretta: the way I think about my art is that I am creating something for me, and when I am no longer on this earthly realm, that is- Mm … the thing I leave behind. I- Mm … you know, my partner and I chose not to have kids.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: That is not gonna be- Mm … my legacy. My legacy is going to be my music, so but- Yeah … you know, maybe in 100 years somebody’s still listening to my music and goes- Yeah

“Oh, that was Gretazilla. I wonder who she was?”

Lyndon: Wow.

Gretta: Like, that to me- Yeah, that’s amazing … is pretty cool. Yeah.

Lyndon: She taught the bagpipes at, uh-

Gretta: Yeah. … at boarding school. I’ll have a Wiki page. But, you know, like, hopefully, like, I ta- I, like, so as my, you know, another stream of my income is that I teach music. Mm. And I’m really, I really get my students to look at the pieces of music that they are learning and research who wrote it.

Lyndon: Oh, nice. Mm. Nice.

Gretta: Like, a little kid learns Ode to Joy-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: and knows who w-

Lyndon: Robbie Williams, did he write that?

Gretta: Yeah, who Robbie Williams is.

What,

Lyndon: what, what’s their response to that?

Gretta: Some of them are like, “Oh yeah, wow.”

Lyndon: Mm. “

Gretta: Wow, that is kinda cool.” Others are like, “

Breallyn: Yeah, whatever.

Gretta: Can I do the next one now?”

Lyndon: Yeah. But yeah,

Gretta: that’s something that I really am passionate about kids being aware of, is like, go and find out who wrote the piece of music.

What else did they do? Yeah,

Lyndon: yeah.

Gretta: Mm. Did you like it?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Like, my, my thing is the only wrong answer is, ’cause- Yeah, that’s the only wrong answer. I wanna know why you didn’t like it.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: I wanna know why you liked it.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s cool. It’s really thought-provoking. Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah, and it is such an amazing thing about, about music, about art in general, of how it does just transcend generations.

It’s worth us keeping and conserving and putting into new formats and all of that- Mm … because of how it touches heart to heart to heart and-

Gretta: Yeah …

Breallyn: you know, continues to like in- inspire us or influence us or, you know, give us a, like a more fulfilled life in certain ways. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Gretta: Eventually the song doesn’t belong to the composer.

Breallyn: Mm. Yeah.

Gretta: It belongs to- Mm … every person that- That’s right.

Breallyn: Yeah …

Gretta: has it in their life-

Breallyn: Yeah …

Gretta: which is really kind of amazing.

Breallyn: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Songwriter Rabbit Holes

Lyndon: I hope there’s a resurgence of, like, just reading liner notes and who, who produced the song and who wrote it and-

Gretta: Yeah …

Lyndon: all that sort of stuff.

Gretta: It’s cool. I love doing that.

Lyndon: Yeah. Like- I love it too … whom is

Gretta: this person? Mm. Yeah,

Lyndon: yeah.

Breallyn: And who else did they work with? And, oh, I can see the connection. Mm. Yeah. It’s really good to sort of put that kinda tapestry underneath the, the one piece of

Lyndon: music. Yeah, and you can find some real, like, really interesting connections that you would just never have thought of, you know- Mm

just because people happen to be in the studio at the same time, you know? Yeah. And some of these bigger facilities that used to exist, you know? Yeah. And they still, still do, I guess, you know, overseas, but, there’s different rooms and different recordings going on and,

Gretta: you

Lyndon: know. Mm.

Gretta: I found that some of my most favorite artists are actually the songwriters-

Lyndon: Yeah

Gretta: that aren’t the, like, yeah, they do, they’re just in their lane doing their thing.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: And it’s amazing, but they’re not- Yeah … the ones in the spotlight.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so they’re still performing their songs, you mean? Yeah, yep. But, like, other people-

Gretta: Other

Lyndon: people … are also.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Actually, I learnt recently, and it blew my mind.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: You know Kevin Welsh?

Lyndon: I was just thinking of him when you were saying that, yeah.

Gretta: He did, um, that song, he wrote that song Millionaire, the Chris Stapleton one. That makes me a millionaire.

Lyndon: Oh, did he really?

Gretta: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I f- learnt recently- … that one of my all-time favorite Garth Brooks songs-

Lyndon: Yeah, damn

Gretta: was actually two of his.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: His and some- or maybe his and somebody else’s that Garth mashed up.

Lyndon: Oh, that’s right. Yes.

Gretta: And wrote the song, and Kevin played the s- the original version of the song, and I was like, “That is why I love this song so much.” I didn’t know it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it’s, um, Pushing Up Daisies.

Lyndon: Yeah,

Gretta: love that. Garth Brooks.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah, it’s, it’s such an amazing song. Yeah

Lyndon: We-

Gretta: It’s cool to know. I,

Lyndon: I don’t know, Bre, if you remember, we saw Kevin Welch down at, um… I can’t remember what the venue was, but it was in Brighton, I think, wasn’t it? Do you remember? That was like years ago. Yeah, I, I

Breallyn: do.

Lyndon: Yeah. Dr.

Boyle also. And we- it was so, it was so good. Yeah. Kevin Welch and, um, who was he playing? Kieran. Kieran Kane. Oh. Yeah. And Fats Kaplan.

Gretta: That album, Kevin Welch and Kieran Kane. Yeah.

Lyndon: So good. So good. She dances on tables for… Yeah.

Gretta: And now karaoke style.

Lyndon: Yeah. So, I’d

Breallyn: love to have you two just go for it. Oh, it’d be

Lyndon: amazing.

Yeah, yeah. Jeepas, jeepas, jeepa. She dances on tables for wages and tips. I can’t remember the rest of it. Um-

Breallyn: Our kids actually love that album, too. Yeah. We used

Lyndon: to play that a lot in the car. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of a bit bluegrassy. Play that on the way home. Very earthy.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah, but I sort of really fell in love with Kevin Welch- Yeah

around that, around that time. And, uh, and he’s out here now, isn’t he? Yeah, he is. He lives out here.

Gretta: Yeah.

Gigs In Caves

Gretta: Another one of my favorites is Daryl Scott. I got to see him perform live in a cave.

Lyndon: I thought you were gonna say cage. Oh, wow. Oh, which cave? Oh, Buchan.

Gretta: N- no, no, no. I was, um, in America. I, it was yeah, I was i- in Nashville.

Oh. I was in Nashville.

Lyndon: Oh,

Gretta: wow. Um, and I just did a hair flick and- Look at you … looked like a douchebag for a second there.

Lyndon: Look at you,

Gretta: name-dropping cities. Yeah. Um, and my friend and I went down to this venue. It was, like, two hours south of, of Nashville. Mm-hmm. And saw him perform in a cave, and I sat in the front row and cried for, like, two hours.

Wow. It was so amazing. Yeah. Wow. So amazing. Yeah. Wow. And he’s, he’s written some phenomenal songs. Um, like The Chicks’, uh, “Daddy sits on the pon- front porch swingin’, lookin’ out on the vacant field.”

Lyndon: Is that Dixie Chicks?

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: Okay. Yeah,

Gretta: he wrote that song.

Lyndon: Okay.

Gretta: Um, Long Time Gone, that’s what it is. Um, You’ll Never Leave Harlan Alive.

Lyndon: Okay.

Gretta: That’s-

Lyndon: Right, right, right …

Gretta: Daryl Scott.

Lyndon: Yeah. Oh, I probably need to look into this guy.

Gretta: Oh, yeah. He’s, he good.

Lyndon: Was he performing in the cave on his own?

Gretta: No, with his band.

Lyndon: Oh, okay.

Gretta: Yeah. Which was the coolest, ’cause he d- also did, like, a album of Hank Williams songs, and, like, pretty much anything that man touches turns to cool.

And it was- Just so rad, him, him performing some of his songs, some of Hank Williams’ songs on, on Hank Williams’ birthday. Mm. It was kind of amazing. Oh. Hence the tears. Yeah. That’s

Lyndon: kind of special.

Breallyn: Yeah. It does, yeah. What a great gig. Mm. That just, yeah, sounds amazing.

Lyndon: That’s the opposite experience that I had when I went and saw Ted Egan in his home, and I think I fell asleep.

Fell as- I, I was hypnotized by the Foster Phone. You know, doo, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. I love it. And his monotone voice. I mean, it was, it was, it was good. I was young and, um, after a while I just nodded off. Uh, yeah, so… But a gig in a cave sounds- Mm … brilliant. That’s pretty

Gretta: cool. Yeah.

Lyndon: Sounds really… I wanna see a gig at Mona in, um-

Gretta: Oh, yep …

Lyndon: in Tassie. Mm. ‘Cause they do gigs underground there.

Gretta: Yep.

Lyndon: Slightly different, but, um, yeah. Queens of the Stone Age did a gig there.

Gretta: Yeah, that doesn’t surprise me. Oh, it doesn’t, yeah. Your old mate that runs it is, um, Violent Femmes.

Lyndon: Oh, yeah. There you

Gretta: go.

Didn’t know that.

Lyndon: Oh, he doesn’t own it, does he? But he runs it. Runs it. Yeah. Yeah, he runs the festival.

Gretta: Or-

Lyndon: Or used

Gretta: to or something. I, I

Lyndon: can’t remember … Oh, that’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re right. Yeah, ’cause he lives down there.

Gretta: Mm.

Lyndon: Oh, wow. Oh, so m- see? All these threads. Well,

Breallyn: connections,

Lyndon: hey? Mm-hmm. What is it wa- Connections and threads

why do you need a manager?

Gretta: Yep.

Lyndon: Kevin.

Gretta: Everyone knows Kevin Bacon.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Gretta: Six degrees.

Lyndon: We all love a bit of bacon. Although these days mine has to be nitrate-free. Oh. There you

Breallyn: go.

Lyndon: Yeah. That’s my rider. Give me some bacon that’s nitrate and nitrite-free. Wow. Please. Yeah,

Breallyn: PS, you’ll never find it-

Road Trips And Shows

Breallyn: Um, so Gretta, you’ve got Lyndon doing some, a few gigs with you here and there- Yeah … which has been lovely f- to see him be so excited about playing with

Lyndon: you. Don’t say

Breallyn: that.

Gretta: Nerd.

Lyndon: I am

Gretta: a

Lyndon: nerd. He’s

Gretta: a great nerd.

Lyndon: But-

Gretta: It’s really cool ’cause Lyndon, like, was literally the first muso I met when I moved back to Melbourne.

Oh, really? So it’s kind of this nice little full circle moment. Wow, that’s

Lyndon: nice. Yeah. Yeah. I obviously didn’t know that at the time I would’ve probably, uh, you know-

Breallyn: Hope you made

Lyndon: a- … looked out for you more … half-decent

Breallyn: expression, im- impression

Lyndon: Impression. I don’t know. Mm. but it has been nice getting out, and getting out to regional places- Yeah

and yeah, it’s been really good and-

Gretta: You’re there and everywhere.

Lyndon: Yeah. I mean, it’s all… I need some excitement in my life, you know? Heaven

Gretta: knows

Lyndon: that, you know, a road trip to the middle of nowhere

Gretta: Yeah, is cool.

Lyndon: Yeah, you know? Well- It’s like that’s my, uh, pilgrimage …

Gretta: yeah. Well, our last, our last-

Lyndon: That’s my Mecca

spot was like- That’s my Nashville …

Gretta: we went to Clyde North. That was pretty- Yeah,

Lyndon: we … wow. Lovely people in Clyde North.

Gretta: Yeah, it was great, but also it’s Clyde North.

Lyndon: Also, turning onto that really busy road was a bit like, “Hmm.”

Gretta: Yep.

Lyndon: Wasn’t it?

Gretta: Yeah. It

Lyndon: was a bit like… cause the driveway was hidden.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: You would not know that there was a driveway there.

Yeah. So I was a little bit nervous, you know, about-

Gretta: Living on the edge …

Lyndon: yeah, yeah, about living on the edge and, uh, fighting the good fight- Wow … and taking no prisoners.

Breallyn: Didn’t realize that the traffic was so bad

Lyndon: In Clyde North.

Breallyn: Coming from Melbourne. Well, well,

Lyndon: yeah, country drivers, you know what I mean?

They put their foot down. Mm. Don’t they?

Gretta: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah, zero to 160 and,

Lyndon: yeah. Well- … how

Breallyn: quickly you can.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I’ve got family from the country, Mate. Lyndon, Lyndon’s driven with

Gretta: me. Oh,

Lyndon: yeah. He

Gretta: knows. Let’s carpool. So long. Yeah. No, I think

Lyndon: it was all right. You have

Breallyn: a lead foot.

Gretta: Oh, yeah, country driver.

Lyndon: Yeah, I guess so.

Gretta: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: I felt relatively safe. Relatively? It was a modern vehicle and, uh-

Gretta: There were airbags. Airbags … it had, yeah,

Lyndon: it had Bluetooth. Airbags, shocks, pegs. It had everything.

Breallyn: Air

Gretta: con. Air

Lyndon: con, yeah. Beautiful.

Breallyn: the best place people can find your music?

Like, where’s your preferable sites for-

Gretta: Um- …

Breallyn: sales or for streaming?

Gretta: Wherever, wherever you listen to your music, I am-

Breallyn: Yeah … I am there. You’re there, lurking there.

Gretta: In the shadows. Yeah.

Breallyn: Go find

Gretta: Greta.

Breallyn: Um,

Gretta: yeah.

Selling Music Direct

Gretta: Um, if you’re still into physical copies, I have a store on my website grettaziller.com. Greta with two T’s, Ziller with an E-R. . Yes. Um, otherwise I have them at the venues that I play at, so come in to a show and buy a CD

Breallyn: Yeah Or a T-shirt I think we need to get behind this, you know, buying CDs movement, because it’s way cooler Yeah

Gretta: Than

Breallyn: just streaming it, yeah

Gretta: Yep

Lyndon: If you’ve got a CD player

Breallyn: If you’ve got

Lyndon: one, yeah That’s the next thing

Gretta: Or just buy the vinyl to- Yeah

Lyndon: make you

Gretta: look snobby

Lyndon: And, yeah, and then- Better

Gretta: than your friends

Lyndon: And then you can have analog night and just play vinyl Mm.

Gretta: Exactly. Mm.

Lyndon: Do you have a Bandcamp page?

Gretta: No

Lyndon: Okay.

Gretta: I do, but I don’t have anything on it You don’t,

Lyndon: yeah Yeah So-

Gretta: It’s ’cause I have my own, I have my own website and my own store on my website

Lyndon: So, yeah, so why would you send people there- Yeah

kinda thing. Yeah, okay. And just, I just wanted to circle back Mm That’s, uh, Pro Talk right there. Co-host Pro Talk, um- Before … cor- bit corporate. This is a bit shit, actually.

Sneaky Early Releases

Lyndon: I wanna go back to what you’re saying about if once your song hits Spotify-

Gretta: Yeah …

Lyndon: it’s old. So is there a way that you release music elsewhere before Spotify or Apple Music?

Gretta: I do do a sneaky sneaky, so-

Lyndon: Ooh …

Gretta: I have a sneaky

Lyndon: sneaky. Can, can, can I just… Do I have to edit this out

Gretta: as well? No, no. By all means, keep this in. So I, ’cause I, that was something that I thought about a lot. I’m like-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: you know, I can earn . 0, what is it, .003- 003 … cents a stream from someone by them streaming me on Spotify, and Spotify’s king in Australia Mm.

It’s, like, 70% of the market or 80% of the market in Australia Yeah, it’s

Lyndon: going up there

Gretta: Or I can make it available as a digital download on my website-

Lyndon: Mm …

Gretta: and charge $2 for it, like you would in the old school iTunes-

Lyndon: iTunes, yeah …

Gretta: iTunes day- Mm … and offer it early to my fans. Mm. So anyone that’s on my mailing list knows that I will send them an email before the song’s out saying, “If you wanna buy it, you can get it from my website, and you can have it a couple of weeks early, know what the song’s gonna be.”

And it supports me You’ve got the access to the music video. You can, yeah, you can buy a cap as well. I’ll send you a s- I’ll send, I personally, not even one of my pseudonyms- I will send you an email thanking you yeah, and have a little bit of personal connection.

Lyndon: That’s great. Yeah. That’s not a sneaky sneaky.

That’s just smart

Gretta: Well, I plan on doing it for the whole album as well

Lyndon: Yeah

Breallyn: Yeah

Gretta: Um, as a presale. Uh- What’s

Lyndon: the name of the album?

Gretta: I don’t have a name

Lyndon: yet Okay, ’cause it, yeah

Breallyn: It is a smart way to do it because it does give that personal touch to- Yeah … the people that are into your music- Yeah … and helps them feel connected and, yeah, like- Like you’ve got it first

Gretta: you

Breallyn: know, the

Gretta: anticipation

Breallyn: and

Gretta: yeah. You’ve really helped out and- What’s,

Lyndon: what’s the uptake on that? Do you know?

Gretta: Oh

Lyndon: Like of-

Gretta: A couple of people. Like it’s singles, so I’m hoping that, like eventually, like I keep doing it for the singles, and then for the album, like- Mm … especially the people that have purchased the singles, I’ll say- Mm

‘Well, for a discounted rate,’ ’cause you’ve purchased three of them already. Right, yeah. Here’s the, here’s the full album. Yeah. And I can use it as a presale which helps for charts and stuff, and yeah, I just wanna get my… It’s kind of just getting your audience used to the way you operate, so. Mm. Yeah, that’s fair enough.

Um, just doing that as a, as a, a thing.

Lyndon: Mm.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Gretta: Yeah. And I still encourage the people that have pre-saved it, or pre-bought it, to pre-save because it, that helps. Yeah. Um,

Lyndon: yeah. Yeah, I don’t know if the general populace yet understand the importance of pre-saving and what it actually means.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know, so-

Gretta: I bang on about it all the time.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Maybe we can do an educational, uh, podcast about that. Mm. Like an episode. Oh, wow.

Lyndon: Would

Breallyn: be pretty good.

Lyndon: A PSA. Yeah. That sounds like research.

Breallyn: I’m putting you… I’m expecting you to do the research on that one. I’ll just ask a few people. To your category.

Gretta: Yeah, I can help you out with that one. But yeah, no, pre-save’s a, a huge and streaming after the fact is huge, and adding to, to your personal playlist is huge.

Mm. Like all those little touch points shows Spotify that your song is popular.

Lyndon: Right. Mm. Right, right, right.

Gretta: Yeah.

Spotify Tiers Explained

Gretta: And then that puts you, ’cause Spotify at the back end, um, the… Here’s the, here’s the story behind it. Spotify at the back end has three levels of streaming. Mm. Um, and you start in this first level, and if they can sh- prove, if you can prove that you’re popular-

Lyndon: Right

Gretta: you’ll get put into the second level, and if you keep building and building, you end up in this third tier, which should technically take you- Mm … to more and more people.

Lyndon: Mm. Right, right.

Gretta: Um, yeah. And so-

Lyndon: So at that stage, it’s not really about dollars, is it? It, like leading up to that, it’s just about getting to that point.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: And then you have the chance to earn some decent money from your music.

Gretta: Yeah,

Lyndon: yeah. Yeah. Mm.

Gretta: And sadly, it’s what, you know, festival bookers look at. It’s like w- how popular are they on Spotify? Mm. And if you’ve got less than 1,000 streams on a track-

Lyndon: Yeah …

Gretta: no one cares.

Lyndon: It’s true. Yeah, that’s true. I hear that all the time.

Yeah, sad.

Gretta: Yeah.

Lyndon: Mm. Yeah. Well, that’s a sad way to end the, end the podcast. Let’s, can we, let’s

Gretta: talk about- On, on the good, on the good end- Yeah … my, my latest single’s doing really well, so. Oh,

Lyndon: that’s good.

Gretta: So thank you everyone who’s streaming

Lyndon: it.

Meet Eleanor Rigby

Lyndon: And, and you have a new family member. We can talk about that.

Gretta: Oh, yes, I do have a new family member.

Lyndon: Da, da, da, da, da, ra, ta, ta, da, ra, ta, ta, da. Tell us about your- But the

Gretta: Aretha Franklin version. My, um-

Lyndon: Ah, okay.

Gretta: Yes I grew up on Aretha Franklin. Right. And I grew up with Chihuahuas, and I’ve only ever had Chihuahuas. Mm. And- … on my list of names for my new little Chihuahua was Eleanor Rigby. And I am a firm believer in giving your pet, like-

Lyndon: A human name

Gretta: a weird name. Oh. Like, my last dog, his name was Lester.

Lyndon: Mm.

Gretta: Mm. He was a Chihuahua- Lester … named Lester.

Lyndon: That actually sounds pretty

Gretta: good. One of my friends used to call him Big Les.

Lyndon: I, I, I, I am confused. I’m confused with one thing, though. Yeah. A Chihuahua doesn’t scream farm dog.

Gretta: Yeah, no. They were really good at, uh, pushing up the calves from the other side of the fence and then running away as soon as the calves turned around.

Um, yeah. No, I don’t know why. Mum, Mum just got us a Chihuahua when I was little, and then we just ended up being the family that ended up getting all the little rescue Chihuahuas. Aw. Right. We had a, we had a few Chihuahuas. Yeah,

Lyndon: yeah.

Gretta: Yeah, growing up. Mm. And then m- the first chance to get my own dog, it was a Chihuahua.

Chihuahua. A Chihuahua. Yeah, so- Well, next

Breallyn: time please bring Eleanor Rigby. I

Gretta: will, I will bring Eleanor Rigby. She is, um, uh, in her, like, baby phase, so she is like- Aw … a little ball of chaos. I have a cat collar on her so I can hear where she is. Oh.

Lyndon: Yeah, good idea.

Gretta: She’s into everything, and she’s tiny. She’s the…

Last time I, I measured her, she was the height of a Coke can. Like, her back was up to a Coke can. Oh. Wow. Now I want a Chihuahua. She’s

Lyndon: tiny. So she might reach the height of a 600ml Coke bottle at some point.

Gretta: Yeah, yeah. Maybe.

Lyndon: That’d

Gretta: be like…

Lyndon: Yeah, that’ll be it.

Gretta: Yep.

Lyndon: Mature.

Gretta: Yep, yep. But yes, Eleanor, she’s, she’s a bit of fun.

Breallyn: Aw, how cute. Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: Well, thank you so much for joining us, Gretta. Of course. Thank you. We have loved having you, and please come back another time. Anytime. With or without Eleanor Rigby. It’ll be fine. Yeah. And everyone, go check out Greta Zeller’s music. So good. There’s live shows, there’s downloads, there’s physical albums to collect.

And if you’re cool like me, you can even buy a T-shirt, uh, which I wear all the time.

And thank you so much again for joining us. Thanks for having me.

Lyndon: Thankyou.

Breallyn: Bye. We did it!

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