November 18, 2025 · Episode 47
1 Hr, 17 Min, 52 Sec 

Summary

Discover the powerful creative journey of Dulgubarra-Yidinji writer, journalist, and marketer Skye Cusack. From navigating homelessness as a teenager to buying her first home and securing a major publishing contract for her debut novel, Skye shares her inspiring story of resilience. Explore her insights on discovering an authentic voice, tackling complex themes like cultural disconnection and mental health, and surviving the grueling process of major manuscript rewrites.

Skye Cusack on ABC
The Dangers Of Just One Person – by Skye Cusack

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Transcript

Lyndon: Welcome to Pain In The Arts, where the pursuit of meaningful art meets the unpredictable demands of real life. I am Lyndon.

Breallyn: And I am Breallyn. And today we are joined by Skye Cusack. Welcome, Skye.

Skye: Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

Breallyn: Thank you so much for coming along. A very quick intro as to how you actually got here.

We met less than a week ago. That would be right. At the Sunbury Library, which is a bit of a random place, but you were doing a great little Marketing For Writers workshop, which you were incredible at, and I thought, I’ll be brave and bold, because that was exactly what you were encouraging writers to do.

Skye: It’s true.

Breallyn: And I said, will you come on the podcast? Just such a great thing to meet you and to hear about you then. So I’m hoping that you’ll share a lot about yourself to our listeners as well here.

Skye: Yeah, no, and what you didn’t know is every year I set a goal and my goal for 2025 was to be on more podcasts. So I was like,

Lyndon: Really?

Skye: Wow, this sounds incredible. Let me jump in there. But no, it was really nice to be at the library.

Breallyn: Yes.

Skye: And do the workshop. And I think, yeah, I am not in town for very long, so it was really nice that the dates matched up and I got to do it and yeah, it was like, and now I’m here.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep. A very good use of your time in Melbourne.

Skye: I try my best. Yeah. I just try to float. I just float around and then I leave again. Yeah. Sounds like a good thing to do. Yeah. It’s how I roll.

Breallyn: Awesome. Before we get too far into that, can you just talk to us a little bit about who you are, what you do essentially. That would be great to hear.

Skye Cusack Author Interview

Skye: Yeah. So my name’s Skye. I’m Dulgubarra-Yidinji writer, journalist, marketer. I currently live in Rubibi Broome on Yawuru Country. I moved there in May to work at Magabala Books as the Marketing Coordinator. I’m also a writer myself. I also do some articles for ABC Lifestyle, ABC News, ABC Indigenous.

And I’m also just chilling. I wanna put that in there. That’s one. I just straight chill and I just relax. That’s something I’m trying to add. That’s an affirmation because I think I’ve been going crazy the last few years, doing all sorts of hustling and bustling and now.

I’m just, I’m soft launching, but I’m gonna just sit down and have a sleep for a while. Nice. This is a hot announcement on the podcast.

Breallyn: That sounds great. I am gonna rest at some point in the near future. Now you’ve ticked podcast off your list. Incredible. Now at resting. Chilling. Is it resting?

That’s my

Skye: 2026 goal.

Breallyn: I don’t think you could pick a better spot than Broome to

Skye: have that as a goal. Like I think it’s the inspiration. Yeah. No one cares about anything. Yeah, it’s like Broome time, like a, and also Blackfella time, ’cause I work at an Aboriginal organisation and like people don’t care when you turn off.

Lyndon: See, that’s where I belong. Brea.

Breallyn: It is where you belong.

Skye: Come to Broome.

Breallyn: Yes.

Skye: Everyone come to Broome.

Breallyn: It’s been a long time since we were there, but we totally got into Broome time. We were like, oh yes, this is it. This is how it works.

Lyndon: And the Tata lizards, they’re called Tatas?

Skye: Yes. They’re so cute.

Lyndon: They’re the best.

Breallyn: Adorable.

Skye: Oh my God.

Lyndon: Lying on the top of doorways. They don’t care.

Breallyn: Yeah, they don’t care.

Lyndon: They’re definitely Broome time.

Life in Broome: Frogs, Tides and Tropical Surprises

Skye: And I think the thing that I’ve had to adjust to the most is frogs and toilets.

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Skye: So I’d never heard, I actually never heard of Broome until I got asked to move there. And then I was like, where am I going? And then everyone was like, there were gonna be lots of frogs in toilets. And it’s true. It sounds fake, but it’s real. But they’re very cute. And I’m luckily not scared of frogs. There’s a few people that work at Magabala that are scared of frogs.

Breallyn: Oh wow.

Skye: And I think that would be a tough life.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: That would be. ‘Cause it’s not just that they’re there when you go to the toilet, like when you flush it, all of a sudden they wash down from the rim and

Skye: Correct.

Breallyn: There’s 10 more.

Skye: Correct. And they’re like in the showers, they’re everywhere. But I think they’re cute. So I’m actually okay with it.

Lyndon: Do you know the Carnarvon on the

Skye: I don’t. Oh, I should. I should’ve lied. I should have been like, yeah.

Lyndon: Thing. You moved to Broome. You just don’t care about anything. No,

Breallyn: That’s it. You’re insane. The best place in the world.

Lyndon: Carnarvon is on the West Coast. I’m gonna say halfway up, maybe not quite. And yeah, so subtropical and we had the same thing.

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: Frogs and toilets. Yeah. And when Mum did the washing, so she had an old school washing machine, and then a, what’s it called? Like you put the wet clothes through like a roller press thing. And if you didn’t check each one for frogs, you could the next day be wearing like a t-shirt with dried frog on the inside, which was always fun. Especially if you found it at recess. You’re like, what’s that thing scratching me under the arm? And it’s a frog.

Skye: That is insane. That is insane. I’ve never had, that’s hard to look forward to. Maybe that’s a lot.

Breallyn: Yeah, maybe those good times, those washing machines went outta fashion for a reason.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I wish I could remember what that was called. They

Breallyn: Are they called a mangle or is that something different?

Lyndon: Nah, no one called ’em a mangle. ‘Cause it mangled the frog.

Skye: Yeah. That’s,

Breallyn: I feel like that’s a word that’s associated with old school washing machines. I dunno. No.

Lyndon: Yeah. Anyway, I can picture what it looks like.

Breallyn: Yeah. I actually think, well, we had a small version and it was our very first washing machine when we first got married. It was like, yeah,

Lyndon: No.

Breallyn: Yeah, because we did do it. I remember. And I flooded the laundry with it.

Lyndon: It just seems like such a, like we’re too young to have had one of those.

Breallyn: I know. There were olden day ones when we got it, but we had no money and some,

Skye: It was like vintage.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: I think we found it on the side of the road. We did a lot. It probably works. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah, we, after we traveled Australia, we got back with $3.50 or something, so

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: So yeah. That all tallies up.

Breallyn: Yeah. Pretty much.

Lyndon: Probably is what happened. Yeah.

Broke and Stuck in Broome: When a Pit Stop Becomes a Life

Skye: So many people that I meet in Broome, ’cause when I first moved there I was like, oh, why did you move to Broome? And a lot of people, like me, it was for work. And a lot of the time people would be like, oh, we were just traveling. And then when we got to Broome, we had no money. And now I’ve been here for 15 years. Yes. And I’m like, so some people go to Broome with $3.50.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: And then they have to get a job and then now they’re like, our kids are here. They’ve been at school here. And I’m like, oh my gosh, your children are alive because you were broke. I don’t know, that stuff to me is like crazy.

Breallyn: Yeah, that is crazy.

Lyndon: Do you know the foreshore where people go to walk out to Stairway to the Moon?

Skye: Yes.

Lyndon: Is that what it’s called? Stairway to the Moon?

Skye: The Stairway to the Moon. At Gantheaume Point.

Lyndon: We camped there. For nine days until, so what would happen is we were just sleeping. Sleeping under a mosquito net.

Skye: Really smart.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Smart choice.

Lyndon: We just hung it up from a tree.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And had a blow-up mattress and the mosquito net. And then we’d get up, obviously pretty early, have breakfast and pack all that down and just put it in the car. On the ninth or the tenth day, the Ranger who would come past every day goes, probably time you moved on.

Breallyn: Yeah. Like he wasn’t gonna fire us. He wasn’t gonna yell at us. He just was like, ah,

Skye: Just like a gentle nudge.

Lyndon: Gentle nudge.

Skye: Just a recommendation.

Lyndon: And we were like, yeah, fair enough. And we did. But I didn’t really wanna leave Broome and I’m thinking now, I don’t know why we didn’t just go to a caravan park or something.

Breallyn: Because we saved every dollar we had. We didn’t have much.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: But I’m actually too scared to go camping in the Kimberley because so many people have said they’ve gone camping and then they’ve gotten The Rot and I don’t know what the rot is, but it sounds so scary that I’m never camping.

Breallyn: Sounds terrifying.

Lyndon: Oh, it does.

Skye: Some sort of like skin,

Breallyn: Sounds like some sort of zombie thing that’s gonna take you over.

Skye: It makes me so scared. So I don’t camp. I’ve been fishing one time and I didn’t fish. I just sat there on the boat and I fell asleep on the boat. So I don’t know if I’m getting into Broome life, I’m not.

Breallyn: You must have been,

Lyndon: It sounds like an urban myth to keep people away from Broome.

Skye: I think it’s real.

Breallyn: I reckon, like in the tropics there, if you get a cut or any kind of infection, like it can get really bad, like pretty quickly. So maybe it’s something along those lines. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. True.

Breallyn: So I’m glad I didn’t hear about it when we were there.

Skye: Yeah, I’m gonna say it. Yeah. People should have told me after I’d gone camping, like at least once.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Skye: Because that’s, I’m scarred.

Lyndon: Oh yeah. Yeah. No, I don’t like the sound of that at all. I’d still go camping though.

Skye: Yeah. I’m from Tasmania, so it’s a different type of camping. It’s like also the two most opposite kind of places.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: Geographically,

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: Climate wise, everything. And so it’s definitely been a lot to acclimatise to, but I’m really enjoying it and there’s such a creative scene there, like I would, and a lot of, a huge queer community.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Huge creative community. It’s got a population of about 17,000 people.

Breallyn: Gee, it’s grown since we were there, which is a long time ago. Yeah.

Lyndon: Sorry, what’s the pop? 17,000?

Skye: 17,000.

Lyndon: That’s very small.

Skye: Yeah. But I guess when you were there it was even smaller.

Lyndon: I have no idea.

Breallyn: I dunno what it was. But yeah, it would’ve grown. Like I’ve seen articles or stories or whatever through the years and gone, oh, Broome’s growing even more. And it was always like, we traveled all the way up the West Coast and been to little towns and then when arriving at Broome, it’s oh, there’s actual markets and there’s a bit of

Skye: The Courthouse Market. It’s really beautiful.

Breallyn: Yeah. And we,

Lyndon: I remember having Singapore Noodles there.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: We bought a flute stone from a gypsy.

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: That was brilliant. I’ve still got it. That’s what I was just looking for. But that’s a different one.

Breallyn: I remember we went to the Moonlight Cinema, which is

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Breallyn: I don’t know, just some, is it still going?

Skye: Yes, that is Sun Pictures. It’s the oldest outdoor theatre in the world.

Breallyn: Yes. Amazing.

Skye: You can tell I work in marketing, I’m just like, all these tidbits. Yeah. Apparently it’s not like something that locals really care about. And I’m not, so in Broome I’ve learned you can’t say you’re a local until you’ve been there for 20 wet seasons.

Breallyn: Okay.

Skye: Okay. Fair. And I’ve been there for, we’re about two weeks into the first one. So I won’t say I’m a local, but as someone who lives there, like it’s not, I invite people to come with me and they don’t really wanna come. ‘Cause they’re like, oh, I’m local. We don’t really go there. But I have the time of my life there.

Breallyn: It’s so good. Yeah.

Checking the Tides: Embracing Broome’s Natural Rhythms

Skye: But I learned that you need to look at the tides. ‘Cause I was like, oh, I’m gonna go to the cinemas. And they were like, check the tides. And I was like, what does the cinema have to do with the tides? But if the tides are a certain way, then all the mosquitoes will be out and, ’cause it’s an outdoor cinema, they’ll get you. So I don’t know how I’ve turned into someone that’s checking the tides to go to the cinemas.

Lyndon: I like that. That’s great.

Skye: Yeah. Like I feel very like of the world. I don’t know. Like I think before I was in Melbourne and I just had Uber Eats all the time and now I’m like checking the tide. I dunno.

Breallyn: Yeah. It’s a different life.

Skye: It’s a new culture. It’s a new life for me.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: But yeah, no, I really, it’s really beautiful.

Breallyn: That’s awesome.

Lyndon: Yeah. I love that aspect of it. I’m gonna do it here, even though I’ve got no reason.

Breallyn: Just check the tides.

Skye: Just check the tide.

Lyndon: Check the tide.

Skye: Yeah. Just see how they’re going.

Breallyn: See what time the sunset is, and then decide.

Lyndon: You know what I check at the moment? Precipitation. It’s my latest thing.

Skye: That’s a good idea.

Lyndon: On, yeah.

Breallyn: You were checking the barometric pressure at one point.

Lyndon: I was, yeah. I was checking the barometric pressure.

Skye: I support that.

Lyndon: Yeah. Thank you.

Skye: Yeah, I support that.

Lyndon: Yeah. And then I realised I didn’t really know what I was doing. I was checking it. But

Breallyn: You were hoping it was going to be the unlock the mystery of why you get migraines when you get migraines type thing.

Lyndon: Yeah. I know that it does affect some migraine sufferers.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Quite, like they are like, they know. That’s one of the things, it’s a drop in pressure.

Skye: Oh.

Lyndon: That, that does it for them. Yeah.

Skye: I really do support that.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: Before I was just like, whatever you need to do. But now I’m like, okay, so you’re like a seeker of truth.

Lyndon: I’m just grasping at straws.

Skye: Maybe the solution to your migraines is the tides.

Lyndon: Maybe.

Breallyn: Maybe.

Skye: Maybe that was the secret, or maybe it was the tides.

Lyndon: That’s fair. I’m just gonna look up the tides and go, that’s what the tides are doing.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Where should I look ’em up here or Broome?

Skye: Oh yeah, look, some of the Broome tides, maybe they could have an impact here. It’s a lot.

Breallyn: They’re so huge there, aren’t they? Yeah. Victorian tides are like, oh yeah, tides in. It’s nibbled up two extra feet of the beach. Whereas Broome tide, it’s massive.

Lyndon: It’s nine metres or something, isn’t it?

Facebook Marketplace, Flooded Roads and a Floating Suzuki Swift

Skye: I’m hearing rumours of, in the park, ’cause I have quite a small car. I was told to buy a big car, so I bought a big car. I shipped it over. Then immediately found out that I had been scammed. I bought it off Facebook Marketplace, it was my own fault.

Lyndon: Oh.

Skye: But the person who I’d bought it from had plugged it into some machine that can erase the errors. So when you take it to the mechanic to check it, it can’t read the errors.

Breallyn: Oh.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: So I get there and I’ve got a beautiful car and then all the mechanics were like, no, this is destroyed. Get rid of it. So now I have a little car and I’ve been warned not to use it when the tides are really heavy because there’s like a town-wide memory of a Suzuki Swift just like floating down Chinatown.

Breallyn: Oh.

Skye: Because all the roads flooded and it must have been parked and then it just got scooped off and, oh my gosh, was floating down the road. So I’m trying my best to avoid having my car float down Chinatown.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: That’s my goal for the wet season. Keep it safe. Keep it okay.

Breallyn: Park it on some high ground somewhere.

Skye: Yeah. I don’t know if there’s high ground in Broome, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna be the one to find it.

Breallyn: Find some, somewhere up some steep driveway or something.

Skye: So true.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And we really wanna be talk of the town because your car was floating down the main street.

Skye: I know. I am trying to find the owner of it. ‘Cause I met someone that had a Suzuki Swift and I was like, oh, I don’t mean to be rude but are you the person? And they were like, no, not me. And I was like, but will they admit it though?

Breallyn: Oh, I wouldn’t.

Skye: Maybe I have met the person.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: You could ask the mechanics. They’d probably know.

Skye: That’s actually so true. I need to just become friends with all the mechanics.

Breallyn: You could do it. Oh, I just see a story in this like that you can pitch to.

Skye: That’s so true. Pitch to ABC. See if I can write a story about

Breallyn: You tracking down

Skye: Investigative journalism. That’s so true.

From Copywriting to Published Author: Skye’s Creative Writing Journey

Breallyn: That’s funny. I’d love to hear more about your actual writing journey ’cause you are an author as well as doing all these other incredible articles and contributing to all these different places. But talk to me, or talk to us, and everyone, about

Lyndon: You can talk to Brea.

Skye: I’m only talking to one of you. You have to fight. And then the winner I’ll speak to.

Lyndon: We probably should be, Brea should be sitting on my lap and then you’d have to look in one direction.

Skye: So true.

Breallyn: I’m, yeah. I’m the one that’s very excited to hear about your sort of creative writing journey and how you came to be a published author. Like what that was like, how did you start on all those sort of things.

Skye: Yeah, I guess I have a publishing contract, but I’m not published. I don’t know why I’m still trying to learn the difference between those two things. So I do have something coming out in 2027.

Breallyn: Yes.

Skye: And I had a very, I would say a not typical journey, but I think the thing about being a writer, especially in Australia, is in America you have to have an agent pretty much to get published. But here you don’t, and I hear like the craziest stories from people, but I would say mine was quite unique. And people ask me a lot ’cause I started as a Copywriter, which I know Brea, that you are a Copywriter as well.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so the way that I got involved with that, so I was obsessed with reading books like my whole childhood. And I think a lot of people say that, but it’s genuinely true.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: I was obsessed with reading. I used to eat books when I was a kid. I dunno why.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: I was like obsessed.

Breallyn: I did do that a bit too.

Skye: With eating books?

Lyndon: Pages. Like pages. Individual pages.

Breallyn: Pages.

Lyndon: Or just bite through a hard cover?

Skye: No, I think it was like a succulent meal when I was quite young.

Lyndon: A succulent Chinese meal.

Skye: Yeah. Succulent Chinese meal. That’s so true. That was me eating books as a child. And then, when I was a teenager, the story was gonna take a really sharp turn. When I was a teenager, I was homeless. Sorry, we have to get that one outta there.

Breallyn: Yes. That was quick from,

Skye: That was, I know. I was like, I’m just gonna do like a transition. But that kind of, that’s,

Lyndon: That would be a reason to eat books.

Skye: I know. And then I was like,

Lyndon: You did it the wrong way around.

Skye: That’s so true.

Lyndon: You were training.

Skye: That’s, I was training for the moment.

Lyndon: We shouldn’t make light of being homeless.

Breallyn: No, we shouldn’t. That is a massive thing.

Skye: Like you can make light of, and I also think, I’m meant to say unhoused. I don’t know if I’m very woke, but you can make light of mine. This is what you’ll learn as you’re speaking to me. I genuinely believe that everything that’s ever happened to me is really funny.

Lyndon: Okay. I thought like then you were gonna say for a reason, but funny.

Skye: No, I don’t think, I don’t know if anything happened to me for a reason, but I just think it’s all very funny.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And sometimes I’ll be telling a story and then they’ll be like, I’m so sorry this happened to you. And I’ll be like, this is the funniest thing. What do you mean? This is a humorous story.

So I was unhoused, maybe I should say, when I was a teenager and I was like, you know what? I really need money. I was sleeping on a slide in a park, actually.

Lyndon: On a slide.

Breallyn: Oh, wow.

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: Okay.

Skye: It was probably better than the swings. You see what I mean? I think it’s funny. I think it’s funny, but I would never laugh at someone else in their journey. But for me, and I write comedy books about topics like this, and so I think there’s like an absurdism in it.

Breallyn: Yeah, gotcha. Yeah.

Skye: And yeah, I was like, I really need some money. I don’t wanna be on a slide anymore. And I was on a slide in Tasmania in winter, like it was really cold.

Breallyn: I was gonna say, you would’ve been cold.

Skye: Yeah. And so I was like, the only thing I can really do in this world is write. And so then I started just like, I’d pretty much dropped outta school and I just started going to businesses and being like, oh, can I write things for you? And at first I wasn’t getting any money, like I was just trying to get like a resume of things and then.

I guess after a while I started getting paid for things and I remember the first thing I ever wrote that I got paid for was an article where I was writing from the perspective of someone who had long blonde hair. And it was like 10 Reasons why I Love My Long Blonde Hair.

Breallyn: Oh, wow.

Skye: Clearly I didn’t have that. And so I was just like writing anything. And then I ended up doing some work for like the Hawthorn Football Club. ‘Cause I think they’re Tasmania’s, they’ve adopted them as a team.

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right. Until the new team probably.

Skye: Yeah, I know.

Lyndon: Until the Devils. Yeah.

Skye: But I’m not, I don’t get to be involved in that. But yeah, so I started just, I got this reputation as this small little like teenage child that would just write things for very cheap.

Lyndon: So how old were you then?

Skye: I reckon I was 15.

Lyndon: So were you literally door knocking to get the work or were you doing it online?

Skye: Yeah. To businesses.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: For sure. No, I didn’t have a computer or like a phone or anything.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so I was literally just like going on to people.

Lyndon: That’s cool.

Skye: And just being like, can I write things for you? And then I got into emergency accommodation. I was there for a long time. Then I started working, like I started working full time when I was like quite young. I think maybe I was like 17 or 18 in marketing. And I was doing marketing for a hotel actually. And then within a year, I’d bought my first house.

Breallyn: My gosh.

Skye: So that was very cool.

Breallyn: Oh, wow. That’s amazing.

Skye: This is what I mean. I think I need a rest. I’ve been hustling.

Breallyn: You have been, yeah.

Skye: I’ve been hustling.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so then I didn’t think about writing for a really long time. Like I’d become a copywriter. So like I’d been writing all this stuff and then I was like, you know what? I have a house. Like maybe it’s okay. And I was working for this hotel. Also, during this time, so I was in a relationship from when I was 12 to when I was 24. That’s a long time. That was half my life.

Breallyn: Yes.

Skye: And he sucked. Like I don’t, I’m not gonna lie, I know it’s quite tragic circumstances, but I promise it gets happier and nicer near the end. We’re just gonna have to speed through this.

Lyndon: I wanna hear the dirt.

Skye: Oh my God. I would give it to you. I wrote an ABC article about it actually. But no, he was quite horrific and quite bad and he would tell me a lot. He would say oh, you’re not funny. You are not funny. That was like the big thing that he would always tell me, you are not funny.

I’m the funny one. And for so long I was like, yeah, you’re so right. I’m not funny. Yeah, which is whatever. And then I just forgot I was funny for several years of my life and then, yeah, things got pretty bad and then he left me, which I was very sad about at the time, but now I’m here saying, thank you. Thank you. Did a real one for me. Thank you.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And then I think I was just like, you know what? I’m gonna write a book. I don’t know why. I was just like, I felt maybe like I’d gotten my voice back a little bit.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And I hadn’t written in so long at this point. I was working in finance marketing, so still marketing, but it wasn’t like a beautiful creative kind of outlet for me.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And I was like, I’m gonna write a book. And I started writing a book with my best friend. She’s also a published author. She was not at the time, her name’s Jazz Frost. She has a poetry collection called Ambiguity. I’m just doing a little shout.

Breallyn: No, absolutely.

Skye: And she is my best friend in the whole world and we started writing a book together and it was a very sad book. ‘Cause I was at a very sad time in my life and I’d been in a very sad time in my life for probably several years. And at this point, I think I’m like 21 or 22 when we started thinking the idea and then when I was 24, and the relationship ended, I was like, I’m actually, that’s, I’m actually gonna do it.

So we started writing the book together. And then my friend was like, no, this is never gonna get published. I think I said this to you. Yeah. My friend was like, this is never gonna get published. You’re taking this too seriously. This is never gonna happen for us. We’re just like two people that have had sad lives that live in Tasmania, like it’s never gonna happen.

And then she left me and I said, okay, look, can I just rewrite all of your things? But then can I,

Breallyn: So was it a two-voiced

Skye: Yeah. So it was like dual perspective, like dual POV.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: and at that time the story looked quite different. Yeah. And so I was just like, look, can you give me, if you want to, would you mind giving me permission to just rewrite your things and then I wanna keep going with it. And she was like, yeah, I don’t think anything’s ever gonna happen with it. So you can waste your own time. It’s fine. No,

Breallyn: she really was quite fatalistic about that.

Skye: That, yeah. She’s just like a beautiful, cynical angel and I love her with all my heart. And I’m a little bit delusional and a little bit optimistic.

Then from there, I don’t know if there’s like another question I should be waiting until. No, you

Breallyn: can keep telling the story. I’m absolutely intrigued. All right.

Skye: I’ll continue. I tried to say I do, I love to chat. And so I’d never written a book before.

And I had no idea what I was doing. And I knew what I wanted was to write about mental health ’cause I was going through such poor mental health at the time and I wanted to write a bit of a hate letter to Tasmania. ‘Cause at the time I was like, so Tasmania’s fault, this is ’cause I live in Tasmania.

Lyndon: They should have never separated from the mainland.

Skye: I know, this is all your fault. And so I started from a very angry place. I was like, I’m gonna write about how much I hate Tasmania. And so I was writing about how the mental and the medical health system in Tasmania, it wasn’t very good in how it can be really hard for youth when they’re like not supported and, that wasn’t like based on my own life or anything like that.

No. It was basically just like a diary entry, I think at the start. And it was about these two girls that met in this therapy waiting room, and then one of them like, thought they were in love and it was like a love story. And the other one like had no idea and there was like a little bit of like miscommunication.

Because in media, my least favourite trope in the world is like the miscommunication trope. I hate it in like movies and shows where one of them overhears someone saying something, but it gets taken outta context and then they can’t talk to each other and they don’t sort it out for three seasons.

I hate it.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so I really challenged myself to be like, can I write this well? Because it is also true, people that have mental health issues, like they miscommunicate all the time. It’s really hard to ask for help. It’s really hard to reach out.

Breallyn: Yep.

Skye: And so it was just a very sad, tragic book. And then I finished it and I had no idea what to do with it. And then my friend Jazz, who I’d been writing it with, they were like, oh, I have a friend that’s like a copy editor. And I was like, what’s a copy editor? And they were basically like, if you pay this girl, she will read your manuscript for you.

Too Embarrassed to Share: The Copy Editor Who Never Read the Manuscript

So I paid her the money and then I was too shy to show her the manuscript. And so she never actually read it. And so I was like, I’m just gonna describe it to you.

Breallyn: Adorable.

Skye: I wouldn’t let her read it, even though I paid her the money. I was so scared.

Lyndon: So you just summarised it.

Skye: I literally just summarised it.

She was like, at some point I’m gonna need to read this. And I was like, somehow we’re gonna get through this. And you never actually have to look at the Word document. Don’t worry.

Lyndon: That’s so funny.

Skye: We’re gonna do it. I could not, like I was, and I’m still a bit like that now. I think it’s really hard for me to, I don’t know. ‘Cause you spend so long just like sitting there by yourself in your room, like writing these things and it’s so private and then you’re like, no, this is mine, but also can you help me? But also, I don’t want you to look at it like, this is just for me. And I’m very embarrassed.

And so she tried her best to help me. Like I really did not let her read it. And looking back, I’m like, you’re, that’s so stupid. And I wonder if she like went to her like family or whatever and was like, I had the weirdest client today. She wants me to help with a manuscript,

but I couldn’t let her read a single word of it.

Breallyn: I think that’s the cutest story I’ve ever heard.

Skye: I was so embarrassed.

Lyndon: Do you think she put that money in like a separate trust fund just in case?

Skye: Just in case. I was like, actually I need that bag. Don’t need that bag. Yeah. She actually really did help me. Like it’s gonna sound, and it was, I was all the problem. Like she was incredible. I should say her name’s Avery McDougall. And she’s incredible. And when I was describing the plot of the manuscript to her, she was like, I hate to tell you, but this book already exists.

And I basically had just written All The Bright Places by Jennifer Niven, I think is her name. And so I was like, oh, I guess that’s good because it means, obviously it’s like a good idea because someone else has already written it and it’s become like this bestseller. So this is what I mean, I’m a bit delusional.

Breallyn: No, you’re very optimistic. That would crush me.

Skye: I’m like insanely optimistic.

Breallyn: Yeah. That’s so good.

Skye: I was just like, oh my gosh, I didn’t waste money on this girl ’cause she’s giving me really good advice. And it was at this point that kind of an ongoing theme occurred where someone said to me, maybe you should change the ending.

Because, and I don’t think I should say what it is. Because I

Breallyn: don’t, ’cause we wanna read it.

Skye: Yeah. And yeah, so there was something I wanted to happen in this ending and it was quite dramatic. And I was like, I really want this ending to happen. And then, Avery was the first person of many that was like, I think maybe you should change the ending.

And I was like, no, I’m obsessed with this ending. And I still am actually to this day obsessed with that ending. I famously, I only at this point in my life, I only really read horror novels. I really love horror. That’s my favourite genre.

But I was,

Breallyn: and so you’d always been reading horror novels and then suddenly you were doing like this, slightly,

Skye: it was a YA, like a very

like tragic

Breallyn: Okay.

Skye: Very depressing way.

Breallyn: Like comedic, but,

Skye: but no, it wasn’t comedic at all. Oh. Because I wasn’t funny.

Breallyn: Okay.

Skye: I wasn’t funny.

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right.

Skye: I wasn’t funny. So it was honestly just really sad. And it was like pages and pages of these two girls just like absolutely hating themselves, hating each other, hating Tasmania. Like it was so of the time I was in.

Then, Avery gave me really good advice. She was like, you need to read the genre that you are in. And I think this is advice that I spoke about.

Breallyn: Definitely.

Skye: And I said that from experience because I was trying to write a young adult book and I’d never really read it. And I think All The Bright Places is actually a very famous book.

Breallyn: Yes.

Skye: And if you read Young Adult, I think everyone who reads that genre knows about it, but she was like, the fact you haven’t heard of this book, like you really need to do your homework.

Reading the Genre: How Studying YA Books Transformed Skye’s Writing

And so I read a lot of books. That was my next step. I didn’t even touch

the manuscripts.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: No one was reading it. Not even me, not Avery, not me. Like I was like, put this to the side and just read a lot of books. And then I read so many YA books and I don’t even particularly like YA that much personally, but I was like studying them. Yeah. And I was looking at

Lyndon: Can I interject with my ignorance?

Breallyn: Yes,

Skye: please.

Lyndon: How similar could your book actually have been to All The Bright Places? Like surely. There are books that are on the same theme and have the same plots and have the, do you know what I mean? Isn’t there room for, ’cause you’ve, you would have a distinct voice.

Skye: I don’t think I did back then. Yeah, yeah. I must have.

Lyndon: It’d be a different thing where,

Skye: but again, she hadn’t read the manuscript, so I don’t think she knew what my voice was.

Lyndon: That’s what, yeah, that’s what I was thinking. And also had you read All The Bright Places?

Skye: No, I’d never heard of it.

Lyndon: Then there’d be an argument to go, yeah, I subconsciously may have done. But you hadn’t even heard of it.

Skye: No, I’d never heard of it.

Breallyn: So was it, was she saying, okay, the plot’s similar enough and

Skye: Yeah,

Breallyn: some aspects of it are similar enough that it’s too similar and you might need to

change.

Skye: Yeah. I think maybe she thought that I’d read All The Bright Places.

Lyndon: Okay.

Skye: And just been like, oh yeah, I’m just gonna do that. ‘Cause it’s sold really well. Like she never said that, but, and then I think when I said, what’s All The Bright Places? I think that’s when she got concerned and she was like, hey, if you’re gonna write in a genre, I think you probably should know the genre.

Breallyn: That is very good advice. Yeah.

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: And for everyone playing at home, YA is Young Adult. I’m gonna have to be the sort of,

Breallyn: that’s it.

Skye: Oh, truly.

Lyndon: I’m the non,

Skye: I’m not being accessible.

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right. I’m the non-writer.

Breallyn: This is what I’m like when we have musical guests, I’m like,

Skye: musical.

Breallyn: What are you doing?

Skye: I’m happy to even out the scale.

Lyndon: POV is point of view.

Skye: Correct. Oh, you’re so right. You really, I’m becoming one of those like industry wankers. Like I feel, oh no, I need to be humble.

Lyndon: Eventually we would have to put an explicit warning on our podcast.

Skye: Oh, sorry, I said a rude word.

Breallyn: You, I think I’ve dropped the F bomb before, so don’t worry.

Skye: You can be. Yeah. And so I think, she was right, Avery was right, because since I’ve gotten this publishing contract, and I also work for a publisher as well, people ask you all the time, not as like a test, but they’ll just be like, oh, like what other young adult books do you like, or especially, I say I like horror.

Then they go, oh, what horror books do you like? And it’s not like a test or like a quiz or anything, but it’s just like when you are in the industry of books, it’s good to, that’s, it’s the same as if you’re gonna be a mathematician, you probably should know how to do maths. That kind of thing.

It’s hard to be in the book industry and be a writer if you don’t. So I guess that was my first big learning.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Was like. Read.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Like the way to become a better writer is to be a better reader.

Lyndon: It sounds obvious, doesn’t it? But I guess,

Skye: yeah, I didn’t know what was going on.

Breallyn: And to read like for the pleasure, but also, like you say, you’re studying it, you’re looking at the different conventions, you’re looking at how things work together, what does work, what doesn’t land particularly well and all that.

So yeah. Different, different sort of reading, really.

Skye: Yeah. It was very much, I was literally like underlining things and like

writing notes and

Breallyn: Wow.

Skye: and like I, and I still do that now. I go a little bit crazy and I like, I’m studying for an exam. I don’t know, like it’s really like therapeutic to me ’cause I’m obsessed with trope and like playing with trope.

Understanding Tropes: The Conventions of Human Behaviour in Storytelling

Yeah. That’s like my biggest kind of thing. And so you have to study a lot, and see like, how are different people using trope? Because you’re right. You could all be given the same synopsis. You could give the same kind of synopsis and summary to like 30 different writers and they’d all write something completely different.

Lyndon: Yeah, because it happens in music all the time.

Skye: Yeah. Yeah. And then APRA comes and growls at you. I’m trying to say a music reference actually. Does APRA come and growl at you?

Lyndon: APRA are pretty nice.

Skye: Oh, okay. I was trying to, I was like, my dad’s a musician. I know one thing about music, but they,

Lyndon: APRA are on our side.

Skye: Okay.

Breallyn: But if you take a melody’s,

Skye: I’m pretty misinformed about APRA. I’m sorry for that.

Breallyn: Yeah. If it’s too close, melody wise or lyric wise, is it that, that you. Yeah.

Lyndon: No, no, that’s not APRA’s concern.

Breallyn: Okay.

Skye: I don’t know what I’m talking about. No.

Breallyn: APRA does exist.

Skye: I tried something. It fell flat. It’s okay.

Lyndon: Now let’s explain what a trope is for me.

Skye: Oh, that’s such a good, I’m like, I’m obsessed with tropes. And then you’re like, what’s the trope? And I’m like, oh,

Lyndon: I sort of know. But if I had to put it into a sentence, I’d probably struggle. I’d defer to Brea.

Skye: Yeah. How would you describe,

Breallyn: I guess, I’d say, I dunno, the some of the conventions of the genres, and now I’m trying to think of an example.

Skye: Like a love triangle.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Is a trope.

Breallyn: Exactly. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.

Skye: Or like Found Family is another.

Lyndon: What’s that one?

Skye: So Found Family is like a story where people maybe don’t have a close relationship with their own families. And so then people find each other and they make their own family and community.

And I think a lot of people who are really sad, I’m thinking of someone specific in my life that really likes this trope because it’s like healing,

Lyndon: right?

Breallyn: Yes.

Skye: For them. And so

Lyndon: that’s what our cat did.

Skye: Found Family.

Lyndon: Family. Yeah.

Skye: And you know what? That’s incredible. That’s so beautiful. But I think as well, you said Brea, like the conventions of writing, but I view trope as more of the conventions of like human behaviour. Because like you said, like the cat is like a real,

Lyndon: human.

Skye: example. And yeah, he’s a real human. That’s, see, I’m not crazy, I swear. No. But I don’t know. I think, and I write very contemporary literature, which means modern day and I try to write quite realistic. That’s always my goal.

Breallyn: Yep.

Skye: I try to write, and people say this to me a lot, they say, oh, when I read your writing, you write exactly the way you speak. And that’s always my goal.

And yeah, I guess for me, when I am studying trope and the conventions and writing, I’m thinking, how do I make this realistic? Because love triangles do happen in real life. That’s not just fake and Found Family happens in real life and so does miscommunication trope, even though I’m not happy about it. And then once I felt like I knew what I was doing, I went through and had a second kind of go at it and I rewrote a lot of it, and I didn’t change the ending. I was like, I’m so committed to this ending. And then I moved to Melbourne. I finally, I got out of Tasmania. I did it.

Breallyn: That would’ve been a big move.

Skye: And I moved to Melbourne with Jazz, my friend, who I had initially started writing this manuscript with. I should say as well, this whole time, like I was gonna say, I’ve been Aboriginal my whole life. That’s correct. I was born Aboriginal.

I didn’t just get a subscription, but I never had a strong connection to culture. Like I grew up and my mother, she’s incredible, but she’s very English. And I never really understood culture and I knew I was Indigenous, but I didn’t really know what that meant.

Connecting with Aboriginal Culture Through Black and Bright Literary Festival

And I moved to Melbourne and then I got this job at Black and Bright, which is like a First Nations literary festival, and it was a marketing manager job. And I remember saying in the interview to Jane Harrison, who has written my favourite young adult book of all time, Becoming Kirrali Lewis.

Although at the time I didn’t even know she was famous or accomplished or a writer. I learned my lesson, so I went and did a lot of reading after I got this job.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And I remember saying to Jane Harrison in the job interview, I’m not very good at being Aboriginal, but I’m really good at marketing. So I really wanna learn more about my culture. Please just give me a chance.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And she did. I don’t know why she gave me the job.

Breallyn: That’s so awesome.

Skye: And so then all of a sudden I learned about culture and Aboriginal culture.

Breallyn: That’s so great. So you were really given that opportunity to explore all Aboriginal culture? Or were you looking into your own culture and family?

Skye: At this point, I wasn’t looking into my own. So because Black and Bright’s a First Nations literary festival, I was reading a lot about the artists that were in the festival. Like they programmed like 150 people from all different language groups.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Across the country. And so I was looking into the artists and I was reading a lot of their work and I was learning a lot about generally like what does it mean to be Aboriginal and like why is it important? ‘Cause I think before I was one of those people that was like, oh, I just tick it on a form. Like it doesn’t actually mean anything.

Breallyn: Okay.

Skye: ‘Cause I grew up quite disconnected. And so I was learning over time and then I had this thought of, oh, I think I wanna make one of the characters in my manuscript Aboriginal. And that was like huge for me. ‘Cause I was like, I don’t even know how to write being Aboriginal.

What do I do? And so then I was like, the only thing I can do is write a character that also is disconnected. And that’s what I wanna do. I wanna write

a character that’s doing all the same things I’m doing and thinking like, what is going on? What do these things mean? And I’m so confused.

Like I don’t care about being Aboriginal. And I wanted a character to say that.

Breallyn: That’s so intriguing. Like I’d love to read that.

Skye: It’s coming out. It’s coming out.

Breallyn: I know, it’s got, wait, two years. I just already wanted to read that.

Skye: And so I was really nervous though because now I was at this festival and I was like meeting all these Black writers and I was like, oh, if this thing actually takes off, like people are gonna read this and they’re gonna know that I’m not confident. ‘Cause I was bluffing my way through it.

Lyndon: It’s such an artist thing too, isn’t it? What’s, what is it called?

Breallyn: The, it’s the imposter syndrome that we go

Lyndon: The imposter syndrome.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: I don’t belong here. I’m not good enough. I’m not a proper writer, or I’m not a proper

Skye: Yeah. And I still

Breallyn: Aboriginal writer.

Lyndon: But this is it in a whole other way.

Breallyn: Yeah, absolutely.

Skye: I was like, I’m not even a good like person. No, but like culturally, like I was like, I don’t think, then, I read Becoming Kirrali Lewis by Jane Harrison and it was like the weirdest feeling because she was my boss.

And that book like changed my life. ‘Cause that book is about Kirrali Lewis and she is Indigenous and she doesn’t care. And it doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t matter. Like I don’t wanna be special or different from anyone else.

The Book That Changed Everything: Jane Harrison and Becoming Kirrali Lewis

And then she goes on this whole journey across the book and by the end of it she’s, oh, I’m not gonna say, but she goes on a beautiful journey that I had not gone on at that point.

And it was really weird ’cause she was my boss. So I had to read that. It changed my whole life. And then I just had to clock into work the next day. And I was like trying to look at her like normally, but in my head I’m like, do you understand? You just changed my whole life. I

Lyndon: like worshipping her.

Skye: I know. I was like, did you? Like in my head I was looking at her and I was like, you changed my whole life overnight and you’re never gonna, no. I told her, like I could, I tried to be so professional. Then I was like, oh my gosh. And I hadn’t read it.

Lyndon: You just buying her coffees and how many sugars?

Skye: Yeah. Literally. Yeah. And so yeah, I think she’s incredible.

Breallyn: That’s so cool. I have not read that book, but it’s, I’m thinking of, is it a similar, I guess trajectory as Looking For Alibrandi, which is

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. That kind connection to

Skye: Yes. It’s,

Breallyn: I’m not interested in my heritage, but oh, actually now I actually am because it’s important to me.

Skye: Yeah. Yeah.

Breallyn: Wow. I’m gonna have to read it.

Skye: It’s so good and I’m not, because she used to be my boss.

It should be a movie. Yeah. I’m such a Jane Harrison fan. I’m so glad I didn’t know she was famous when I met her. I’m so serious. Yeah, I guess from there I was doing more reading and more writing and trying to write what it was like to be Aboriginal.

‘Cause I hadn’t read a lot of stories. I don’t know, like growing up when I thought of like Aboriginal stories and Aboriginal characters, they all were like quite confident.

I’d never really read a story until Becoming Kirrali Lewis.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Where someone had felt the way I’d felt.

Breallyn: Okay. Yeah, I suppose there’s that position of strength and standing against the world and standing up for your culture type

Skye: Yeah. Is incredible. And those stories are so important.

Breallyn: Absolutely.

Skye: But they were like not relatable to me at all.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Like I was always very, I’m so glad that that representation’s out there, but like I knew from when I was a young child, oh, that’s not for me.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: ‘Cause like I was very light skinned. I didn’t grow up in my own country. And I remember, there was a point when I was like a teenager and my mum said to me like, do you wanna know more about your heritage? Even though it’s not from my side of the family, I’ll support you.

And I was like, no, I don’t wanna know about it. I was like, thanks. No thanks. See you later. And so I yeah, I rewrote it again.

Submitting to Agent Danielle Binks and the Fight to Keep the Ending

And then at that point, someone very kind said to me, I will give you the contact information of my agent. And you can send it. So I ended up in contact with Danielle Binks, who’s an incredible agent and human being. And so I sent her the manuscript and I was so scared. This was the first time I think people were like actually reading it. I never let anyone

Breallyn: you let this one read it.

Skye: True. I did.

Breallyn: Well done.

Lyndon: And it didn’t cost you?

Skye: No, I just sent it through. I didn’t pay her any, she read it for free. And then it was like months and months of waiting. And this is another thing I learned, I’m a very speedy person. I like, I really like to get things done quite quickly and I was like, waiting and you don’t wanna be rude. And like I was so new to the industry and I still am new to the industry even now.

Lyndon: Were you thinking, man, she’s a slow reader?

Skye: Yeah, I know. And so I sent it to her and then many months later, she hasn’t responded. So I reached out to her again and I’m like, hey, just wondering, do you know that like I’m alive on this earth, kind of vibe. Like I was like, do you know that I’m still here waiting for you?

And then she was like, oh, I read this ages ago. I’m sorry, I thought I’d already replied to you. And I was like,

Lyndon: oh gosh.

Skye: What do you mean? And she was so kind. She sent me so much feedback and so much advice. And I don’t know if that’s common for an agent. I haven’t really spoken to another agent since. But she sent me so much and she was basically just, hey, I love this book, but if I’m gonna represent it, you need to change the ending.

And I was like,

Breallyn: your precious ending.

Skye: What do you mean? And she gave me some really good recommendations. Lots of recommendations for, she was like, at this point, I don’t think that it’s a young adult book anymore. I think it’s New Adult, which is like a little bit older. So that’s more like 18 to 25. Because of some of the themes in the book, she was like, I don’t think that this

Lyndon: right.

Skye: should be for developing minds. I think maybe we could make it a little bit older. It’s a little bit heavy. ‘Cause remember, famously I hated everyone and everything at this time in my life.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so basically she was just like, this is really great writing. I really love it. I think a lot of it also, like I’d been given her contact by someone that worked with her that she really respected. So I think there was like a little bit of some like bias. And then I was like, yeah, cool. Amazing, awesome. And so I went back and did another major rewrite.

I think at this point I’m up to rewrite three or four. I rewrote this book a lot because I had no idea what I was doing.

Breallyn: Yeah, it’s a lot.

Skye: My one great strength in this world is I’m really good at taking feedback. Like I don’t have a big ego.

Breallyn: I was gonna say,

Skye: I don’t, that’s ego.

Breallyn: So good, because like we’ve come across a lot of young writers and developing musicians and people at different places along their journey, but taking that criticism, being prepared to

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: go, I’ll give it a try, I’ll give that a shot of rewriting that or re-recording it, or it’s changing those. It’s,

Lyndon: I think at the heart of it, yeah, most people are, they’re scared. They’re gonna lose the essence of the idea or the story, even if it’s a song, or they’re gonna lose their identity somehow. Or what makes them unique.

And I think over time and through experience, you learn that’s not what’s happening.

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: But initially, I think yeah, for a lot of, like you say, Brea, up-and-comers, that’s definitely, and not, it’s not equally across the board for everyone, but some people are, they do clutch more tightly to it than others.

Breallyn: And usually

Lyndon: they hold onto

Breallyn: those revisions.

The piece will only get better.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: But I was gonna say, I wonder if that was your copywriting experience that helped with that, because I certainly know it has with mine.

Skye: Yeah. I definitely think, and I’m, I don’t know if this is like healthy, but it’s like beneficial for me that because I work in marketing, I view the book as a product, which is not maybe good for me as an artist, but it means that I can talk to agents and publishers and I don’t get offended when they treat the book like a product.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: When I was writing it, I was like, I could just write this for me and have it on my computer or whatever, but I really want this to become something. And at this point I’d spoken to a copy editor and then I’d spoken to an agent and both of them, the copy editor had never read it, but that was my fault.

And I don’t know, I was starting to get to a point where I was like, maybe there’s like something here, like maybe I am okay enough to where people are like responding to my emails. Like maybe this is something. So then I submitted it to a fellowship called the Black and Write Fellowship.

Breallyn: Oh yeah.

Skye: I didn’t know what a fellowship was. I didn’t know what was happening. Jane Harrison was like, Becoming Kirrali Lewis got published because I won this fellowship.

And I was like, I’m obsessed with you and I’m obsessed with that book. I’m gonna do whatever you say.

And so she recommended, hey, and then I submitted it and then I got shortlisted and I didn’t win. I didn’t win, but I got shortlisted and I was just like,

Breallyn: which is an incredible achievement.

Skye: Like that. I didn’t know that about that time. I was just like, oh no.

Lyndon: You suck.

Skye: I was like, no. I think I was just, and everyone like gave it a go. Like you gave it a go, but like it didn’t work out. And then I was speaking to an incredible Aboriginal writer and illustrator, Charmaine Ledden-Lewis, and she was like, do you understand that getting shortlisted is also like a marketable achievement?

And you can, like, when you submit a manuscript somewhere, you can say that you got shortlisted and that also is like huge. And I was like, ah, okay. I guess I’ll do that.

The Magabala Books Moment: When a Publisher Comes to You

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: I was working with Black and Bright and I was running a pitching event. At this time I feel like I need to put a little peg in here.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: I had started thinking about writing a second book ’cause I learned so much.

Breallyn: That I was like, I can write this second book so much quicker. ‘Cause I don’t need to do, like at this point I’m up to four or five major rewrites of this thing. Just based on all this feedback.

Lyndon: Over how long.

Skye: Oh, I reckon I started thinking about it when I was like 21, but I actually gave it a go when I was like 24. So I would say probably four or five years. But actual writing time was probably only one or two if you’re counting like when I actually was like sitting down in front of a laptop. And so yeah, I started thinking of another book I wanted to write. And so I applied for a grant with Creative Australia.

Breallyn: Okay.

Skye: Completely separate book. Then I’m in Adelaide doing a Black and Bright event, and it’s like a pitch. It’s kinda like speed dating for writers and publishers.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so like

Breallyn: I have heard of these events.

Skye: Yeah, like these speed dating events. And I was there like, I was running the event. I wasn’t like there pitching or anything.

And then Magabala Books is there. And I know them a little bit because Black and Bright and Magabala, as organisations, they’re like friends. So I knew some people there, but I’d never even dreamt, like I’d never dreamed of even like sending something to them.

And then someone at Magabala is, oh hey, I actually am on a, I’m one of the peer assessors for this grant. I’ve seen you put in this submission for this other book, and I’ve heard around that you have another manuscript that’s already finished, you should send it to us.

Breallyn: Wow.

Skye: And I was like, dude, I’m not pitching, like I’m running the event. And I like shut them down big time. I was like, I wanna be professional. I’m not here to pitch myself. I just wanted to like give other kind of Black creatives an opportunity. And I like big time shut ’em down. I was like, no.

And then I went away and I was like, you idiot. How many people get a publisher walk up to them and be like, hey, I know you’ve got something, you should send it to us. I was like, you are so stupid. And then, and I’m gonna be really transparent about this, and this is so stupid and so silly, but Magabala Books is an Aboriginal publisher.

And so I was like, I need to make the manuscript more Aboriginal before I submit it. And that’s so embarrassing to say, but it’s just the truth.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: I was like, okay, I need to take every single thing I’ve learned about being Aboriginal. I need to put it into this book. And I tried so hard to make it like more Aboriginal.

Lyndon: Was this the original book that you’d

Skye: Yeah, yeah. The original one. This other book. And I guess the reason I talked about

Lyndon: yeah,

Skye: applying for this other thing, for this separate book, is like people are everywhere all the time.

And like I had no idea that this person from Magabala would be like a peer assessor for another separate thing I was doing. And that was the reason that they wanted to approach me.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And like the Black and Write Fellowship, even though I didn’t win, I was shortlisted. And so applying for things, even if you don’t think you’re going to get them, and even if you don’t get them, like it’s huge as a writer.

And I’m sure as like in music, Creative Australia also does like a lot of grants and funding for music as well. So I’m sure it’s the same thing. And so that’s my other thing, like even if you don’t think you’re going to get anything, you might just stay in the head of someone who’s on the judging panel.

And so yeah, I made it more Aboriginal. I like, I levelled it up. I was like, I’m gonna be as Aboriginal as I can. And then I sent it in and then I waited for a long time. And then one day I got an email and they were like, yeah, we wanna publish it. And I was like, I need to process this. I don’t know why, it was like that imposter syndrome thing.

I was like, ooh, this is too much, this is insane. And I just sat down for a really long time in my backyard and I was just like, what? I don’t know, like it was so

Lyndon: I guess too, it’s like so exposing, like if someone goes, I’m gonna publish it now, it’s everyone’s gonna read it.

Skye: Yeah. And this is the stage I’m at the moment, so I was not like that before.

At this time I was just, this is like a real publisher. Like I have no, there’s no judgment from me if people self-publish, like there’s, that is totally valid. I’ve read some incredible books that are self-published. I’ve read some incredible books that started as self-published and then got picked up by traditional publishers.

Skye: But for me, I was just like, a traditional publisher wants to publish me and I just could not comprehend that. Then very soon after that, I actually got the job at Magabala Books.

And I remember when I applied for the job, ’cause I got made redundant. From the company I was at, not from.

Breallyn: So I was gonna ask you this, like how did that job come about? Or how,

Skye: Yeah. So I’d actually known about the job because I’d been asked to share it on like social media.

And so I was like, oh, this job looks so good. I wish I could apply for it.

Lyndon: Is this why you’re at the

Skye: So I was working at Blak and Bright.

Lyndon: Blak and Bright, yeah.

Skye: Yeah. So I was working at Blak and Bright then the festival finished and then they were like, we’d still love to keep you on, but we can’t give you like that many days. So it’s like where the festival’s not on anymore.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so I was doing a few days with them and then I got another job, another marketing manager job for a different company where I was doing a few days with them. And so I was working full time, but like between,

Lyndon: Okay.

Skye: And I also was like doing my own copywriting and things as well.

Breallyn: Very busy.

Skye: And then I got made redundant from the other job and I was like, okay, what am I gonna do? And I’d seen the job and I was like. And at this time, Blak and Bright had a new CEO called Bebe Oliver, and he’s on the board of Magabala.

From Redundancy to Dream Job: Landing at Magabala Books

Breallyn: Wow.

Skye: And so I went to him and I was like, you wouldn’t be mad if I jumped ship. Because I’m still gonna see you at MBO if I get the job. We’re gonna be cool either way. And he was like, I’ll be a reference. I was like, incredible.

Breallyn: Wow.

Skye: Thank you so much. Yeah, and I remember going to the job interview and something about me in this industry is I’m desperately honest.

Like I’m so scared that I’m not gonna say something or I’m gonna act, or I’m gonna, I just, I want everyone to know everything all the time because I’m so scared that I’m gonna lose an opportunity because I’m accidentally like sneaky or shady. And so

Lyndon: Oh, that’s so interesting.

Skye: I’m really, yeah.

And so I went to the interview and I was like, do you know that I’ve been told, ’cause I hadn’t signed a contract at that point. Like I’d been told, we want to acquire you for publication, but I hadn’t been given a contract.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so I was like, I don’t even know if this is real, what’s going on? And so I was just like, do you know that you guys are probably gonna publish me. Oh, if you gimme a contract, don’t worry. Like it’s no pressure. I was really like, and they were like, yeah, we don’t care. It’s fine. Bebe Oliver, who I said was on the board, he’s also published books with them and they were like, just be okay and ethical and not weird about it.

And I was like, I’m not weird. What are you talking about? I’ll be totally fine and chill. It’s gonna be fine. And then I got the job, and I was very grateful.

Lyndon: Honesty is refreshing, isn’t it? I think that,

Skye: oh, I actually can’t do anything else.

Lyndon: It could be like your superpower.

Skye: I don’t know. That’s true. I think sometimes it hinders me more than it helps me.

Lyndon: I don’t know, maybe, but I would just imagine in cutthroat industries and where everyone’s trying to, trying to get connections and this, that and the other. Everyone spins the truth or they want to present a particular side of themselves.

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: So I think it would be refreshing when someone’s just like insanely honest.

Skye: Yeah. And I thought about it when I was, when I found out this was getting published, I was like, should I not tell people that I made it more Aboriginal? I don’t know. I was like, is that like a weird thing to say? But I was like, no. ‘Cause that’s like such a big part of it to me, is like the whole book is about like understanding your culture.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And I was like, that was like, I don’t know, I think sometimes people write a book based on a journey that they’ve had, but I was writing it as I was having the journey.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: I don’t know, if that makes sense.

Lyndon: Just amended it a bit. You knew a bit more.

Skye: Yeah. I’m just like, dear diary, today this crazy thing happened. Yeah. And so then I got the contract. So I should say my editor, his name is Dr Arlie Alizzi, and he’s incredible.

And it was really weird. And it’s still weird because we’re also coworkers and like I moved across the country to be his coworker, but he’s also my editor. And so he had the manuscript and I was waiting to get the feedback. ‘Cause like when you, but also Magabala is such a different publisher to others and it’s the only publisher I’ve ever worked for. So I’m not sure exactly how it works. ‘Cause Arlie, this is not sponsored. I need to make this. So I just really love my job.

Breallyn: No,

Lyndon: I like the name Magabala

Skye: Yeah, it means

Lyndon: it just rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?

Skye: It means Bush Banana.

Lyndon: Does it really?

Skye: Yeah. In Yawuru Djugun language.

Lyndon: Bush banana. In which language?

Skye: So Yawuru Djugun, and there is another one, I haven’t lived there for very long, but there

Lyndon: Up north?

Skye: There’s like a few, like in the Kley area and like the Rubibi, the Broome area. It’s like a language word and it means Bush Banana.

Lyndon: And they are, they’re pretty small too, aren’t they?

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: The bush bananas. Yeah.

Skye: Yeah. They’re really cute.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: Yeah, I think this is gonna sound like they’ve, like, I just really love working there. Like this is just truly my whole heart and soul. I love it. But they’re like a not-for-profit organisation.

Breallyn: Yeah. So I was gonna say, yeah, they’re set up a little bit differently to some of the bigger places.

Skye: Yeah. I don’t know if maybe they don’t have the same kind of goals that a for-profit publisher would have.

And so they’re honestly just like really chill, as

Breallyn: So they exist in order to give voice to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: writers.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: Make sure that they have those opportunities.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. And

Skye: so I think a lot of it’s about like cultural archiving as well. So it’s not necessarily, oh, we wanna publish this book because we want it to make a billion dollars and it needs to sell this amount of copies, otherwise we’re never gonna work with you again. It’s more, oh hey, if you write something in Australia, the second that you create it and you write it, you are covered by like copyright and then we can support you with like cultural archiving.

And I don’t know a lot about that side of it, so I fear that if I keep speaking someone from Magabala is going to hear I’ve said this and be like, Skye, that’s not how we do that. But as far as I’m aware, that’s what’s true.

Lyndon: And if it becomes like a bestseller and makes a lot of money. What happens? Do they just give you more of it?

Skye: Yeah. So you,

Lyndon: ’cause they’ve gotta remain non-profit, or they could put it into more,

Breallyn: it would be a contract. I,

Skye: yeah. So you get your royalties. I just

Lyndon: want them to call now and go, no, you’ve also got it wrong.

Skye: No. So you get royalties. Yeah. I fear if I keep answering those questions, I’m gonna get in trouble.

Lyndon: That’s alright.

Skye: That’s okay. I still dunno a lot about the contracting and I remember calling the person at MBO that does the, that sends the contracts and I was like, you’re gonna give me like a good contract, right? ‘Cause I’m your coworker, so I’m gonna still have to work with you if I find out it’s bad.

And she was like, no, no girl, you’re fine. This is a decent contract. We’re not like gonna like mess you around or. And I was like, okay, I don’t know what these words mean, I’m just gonna trust you. But it’s really weird to have your coworkers as like your publisher, but I think we all go about it like in the right way.

And ’cause I think when you are an author, you don’t hear anything for like months at a time. And that’s like fine. ‘Cause you like, you just don’t think about the publisher, right? You just go about your life. But my life is the publisher so I can’t not think about it.

For months I was waiting for Arlie to give me like the structural report. And that’s, as far as I’m aware, that’s like the first step, they give you a structural report and they say, they’re still thinking. And in my case Arlie wrote like an essay. I don’t know. I felt like he was like a student that had studied my manuscript and was like writing an essay.

And he was like, these are the themes and this is, I don’t know. Maybe that was the one time I had a big ego. I was like, oh okay, you’re studying my work the way I’ve studied all these other books for so long. You know what I mean? And then I was like, someone, I know he got paid to do it, but still I was like very chuffed.

Lyndon: But is that something that you are meant to then make revisions on?

Skye: Yes. So I had to make another major rewrite.

Rediscovering Humour: The Rewrite That Changed Everything

Because this was a big thing. Arlie was like, Skye, you are really funny. Like, why have you written such a sad thing? Like I’ve heard you like talk about being homeless and talk about all other stuff that happened to you and you’re so funny.

And I was like, no, I’m not. This guy that I was with for 12 years told me I wasn’t funny at all. What are we talking about? And Arlie was like, no dude, like you are, you should put that in your manuscript.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. He was like, you should put it in the manuscript. And I like,

Lyndon: like a, by the way, I’m funny. Just right at the end.

Skye: Yeah. I dunno. It was just like this weird moment where I was like, I don’t know. He like changed my life.

Breallyn: Was it a bit like, aha. Like, oh yeah, actually I should.

Skye: And I was gonna look at him and I was like, you’re my editor and my coworker and now maybe like my soulmate because no one’s ever said something so kind to me before and I was like trying real hard to be chill and I was standing there and I was like, oh yeah, I’m totally funny. And I’ve felt that in a normal way the whole time. Yeah, of course I’ve never had any complicated feelings about humour, but to me also that’s funny as well. You know what I mean?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: And so he was like, make it funny. And I was like, fantastic. And then I sat down and I was, how do you be funny on purpose?

And I’m writing about like medical stigma and

Breallyn: so your themes are actually very heavy.

Skye: They’re very serious.

Breallyn: Yeah. So you’ve got mental health. Yeah. Like you say, medical stigma.

Skye: And there’s, there’s

Breallyn: discovering

Skye: abuse,

Breallyn: Aboriginality,

Skye: cultural disconnection.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: He’s saying you are funny. That should be in there because that would act as a lubricant for these topics to

Skye: Yeah, I think maybe what he was saying was what you were saying before of like, you have such a distinct voice and I think when I speak I do have a distinct voice. And I think he was, he’s very nice and very kind. I think he was basically trying to be like, babe, there needs to be like flavour. ‘Cause I think it was just like, at that point the manuscript is at about 90,000 words. I think at the time it was like 60,000 and it was just kind of 60,000 words of me just complaining about how much I hate Tasmania.

Like it wasn’t like,

Lyndon: and now there’s 30,000 LOLs.

Skye: Now I’m like, hehe haha. And it’s, and it’s so true. But then he said to me, I also think you should change the ending.

Breallyn: Oh no.

Skye: And I was like,

Lyndon: third time’s a charm.

Skye: Fine, I give up. And I was like, fine, I’m gonna change the ending.

The Ending Debate: Holding On and Letting Go

And I think that’s a huge thing that I tell people when I’m giving advice about writing, and I didn’t feel ego about it. I wasn’t like offended. I wasn’t like, oh, you hate my ending. I just really loved it.

And it was a bit problematic. I’m not gonna lie. Like it actually, because we talked about it and ’cause he wasn’t just, change the ending. He was like, why are you so attached to this thing? That’s pretty bad?

And I was like, I love it because this and this and this. What I will say is it was a very hopeless ending. It was not like a nice thing. And it ended with a very sad, tragic thing. And that was where I was at.

Yeah, that’s where

Breallyn: I was gonna say, it’s coming from the place of where you were writing it in the first place.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so I was saying to him, I was like, it’s real, like the ending to this book is like real, like everything sucks and everything’s awful. And he was like, why do you wanna give that message to people?

And I was like, you know what? You’re so right. Maybe let’s have something nice happen at the end. Because I was so worried of falling into that, oh, and then I lived happily,

Lyndon: the Hollywood, yeah.

Skye: Yeah, because that’s not real life, right?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: That’s, the whole book is about like mental illness and advocating for yourself in medical stigma and like abuse and like poverty and like all these things that I’d gone through and I guess I have had a happy ending now, but if I wrote a book about it, I don’t know.

Like I wanted it to feel very real.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: ‘Cause I don’t think, ’cause also I’m at a really good place in my life and I’m so grateful. But something crazy could happen tomorrow and I could just go right back to where I started. Like I think it’s like, I was talking to someone the other day.

Lyndon: You think it’s that tenuous.

Skye: Yeah. And like I, I’m very happy, but I have not had my happily ever after and now I’m never gonna have hardship again.

Lyndon: True.

Skye: I could leave this building and then go and break my leg. You know what I mean?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: Not that that’s, but

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: LOL.

Skye: Into LOL. And so yeah, I was just like, I want it to be really real. And so I sat for a long time and I thought like, how do I make this ending real?

And ’cause I didn’t wanna also publish something that I hated. And I didn’t wanna just write something ’cause I thought it would be commercial and it would sell a million copies.

Like I wanted it to be real.

And I was like, I could have a Word document on my computer that I really love, or I could have a published book in my hand. And so I was like, you know what? This many different people have hated this ending. ‘Cause it is a bit tragic and a bit like hopeless.

I was like, maybe let’s just put something in. And then I think I wrote something. I stand by it. Look, there’s more joy and it’s fine. I don’t know. I don’t know if I found it yet. I think, I don’t know. I just, and I wanna be honest about that ’cause I don’t know if people like put these things in the books that they don’t like, and they go on to podcasts and they say, oh, I love it. This is the best change I’ve ever made, but I don’t wanna do that. And Arlie certainly knows my feelings about it and everyone in the world should know.

But maybe we’ll do a 10 year anniversary special edition, and we’ll publish the one with the actual ending. Maybe that’s what we should do.

Breallyn: Yeah. So your feelings now about where that ending is, quite complicated. Or you’re not,

Skye: you know what, I think I will be angry. This is true. I don’t, I’m sure you can tell. Hopefully you can tell from this. I really don’t have a lot of ego about my work. No, my things, it doesn’t come across

Breallyn: as ego, but like, that you care about this.

Skye: I care about it.

But especially with someone like Arlie, or the copy editor, or Danielle Binks the agent, like when I’m talking to people and they’re giving me advice, I’m like, I guess my approach to kind of everything I do is always assume that you know the least in the room.

Like even in this room, I’m never gonna be like, you don’t know what YA is. I would never. I just would assume that I know the least and I’m just so humbled and so grateful that people are taking the time out of their day to read my work and give me advice. I don’t know, I just feel very grateful.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: But if I come to read these reviews when this book comes out and someone’s like, wow, that ending was so stereotypical, so fake, I’ll be upset.

Breallyn: Yeah. Of course.

Skye: That’s what I don’t, that’s the one thing.

Lyndon: That’s your fear.

Skye: That’s, you can have, you can hate the book. I don’t care if you hate it. I don’t care. But if people say the end, and you can also hate the ending for a different reason, that’s fine.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: But if someone’s like, wow, typical happy ending. I will scream into a pillow, I think.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s fair.

Lyndon: Fair enough.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: But I guess you,

Breallyn: you considered it a lot. I’m sure it’ll come out as authentic to the book. So yeah.

Skye: I, yeah,

Breallyn: I have very much faith in you.

Skye: I think it can be bittersweet. That’s my biggest compromise. It can be bittersweet and that’s all.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Yeah. But I guess, ’cause there’s also two characters and two points of view. I had to write two endings.

Breallyn: Oh, okay.

Skye: As a ’cause it’s

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: but that’s where we’re at. And now I’m at the point where more people are reading it.

Breallyn: Yeah. That’s awesome. So where is it? So it’s not due for publication till ’27.

Skye: 2027.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: So right now it’s a Word document with lots of track changes.

Breallyn: Okay. Yeah. So you’re still doing all the line editing type stuff there? Yeah.

Skye: Yeah. Okay. And again, I just have to be chill and not talk to Arlie, even though literally his desk is like in the same room as my desk and every day I am just like, okay,

Breallyn: where are we at?

Skye: And I’m also not allowed to do any of the marketing for my book when it comes out.

Okay. Yeah, I’ve been told that.

Breallyn: So that’ll probably be,

Skye: which I think is good. I think it’s good.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: But yeah, right now I’m at the point where I’m actually emailing other authors to ask them for an endorsement, like the little sentences, like on the cover of the book.

Breallyn: Yeah. Great.

Skye: And that has really sucked to be like, hi, I really respect you. Can you like, give me a compliment, please. Can you read my manuscript and just love it? And then go on record to everyone who looks at the cover and say,

Lyndon: and by the way, ignore the ending. It might change.

Skye: Yeah, ignore the ending. And so that has sucked. Like I have hated having to like email people and be like, hello. Do you mind just liking what I’ve written?

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Like that,

Breallyn: would be hard.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: Although everyone has to go through that. Sorry.

Skye: Yeah. But I guess if you have an agent, maybe they do it for you, but

Breallyn: Oh yeah. That would be the advantage.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: No, I have had to ask myself and I’ve humbled myself, and I’ve received three yeses and there’s someone, and I don’t think I should say who it is, because that might be awkward for them if they say no.

But there’s someone who I really admire. They’re a comedy writer.

Breallyn: Okay.

Skye: And I really admire them, and I’ve met them in person one time, and I made such a fool of myself and it was so embarrassing. And so I emailed them yesterday.

Breallyn: Okay.

Skye: And I was like, hello. I met you one time at a conference and I really embarrassed myself and I was so foolish. But just ignore that. Please. Would you mind, I really admire your writing. Would you mind giving me an endorsement for my cover? And so if he says no, I’m pulling the book. No, that’s not true. But I

Lyndon: you’ll have three if he says no.

Skye: Yeah, I know.

Lyndon: Is that enough?

Skye: They won’t be. Yeah. For me, that’s more than enough.

Yeah, and I guess it’s also just good to get feedback in general, because also I’d be interested to hear if they didn’t like it. And I’m being really honest, like

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: there’s some people that I’ve sent it to, everyone I’ve sent it to I really respect as writers. And they’re all like Aboriginal writers and it’s a queer book and all three of them are queer.

Actually, I didn’t do that on purpose. And so I’d be really interested to hear from queer Aboriginal writers, like writing expertise, but also just like representing those communities. If they don’t like, I would love if they were like, I don’t like the ending. I think you should change it.

I’d be like, incredible. So yeah, that’s the stage I’m at now and I think you just sit and wait for a long time. And it is hard. Like it’s hard when you’re in the building. Yeah. Oh, and you are, you’re seeing all these other books,

Breallyn: and you could literally be asking them, hey, get on with my book.

Skye: Yeah, I know. And I don’t, and I don’t do it, and I stay really chill and really calm. But everyone’s like very professional.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: About it.

Breallyn: I suppose they’re quite good at delineating those different roles that they’ve got within the publishing house because

Skye: Yeah,

Breallyn: like a few of them there, I believe, are published authors through Magabala Books, is that correct?

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: So I suppose they’ve all had to sit in that same spot going, I wish such and such will get on with the editing.

Rachel Bin Salleh’s Advice and the Art of Not Being Weird About It

Skye: Yeah. And I remember asking, so Rachel Bin Salleh, she’s the publisher at Magabala Books and she’s one of the most incredible people I’ve ever met. And I think between her and Jane Harrison, they’re both so humble and they have such a beautiful sense of humility that I think maybe that’s why I try to have no ego, ’cause they’re both so incredible and so humble.

And I called her a while ago when I’d started in the role and I was like, hey, do you have any advice? ‘Cause she’s like the head publisher and she’s also published through Magabala. And I said, do you have any advice for how do you compartmentalise and how do you separate like being the employee, as a publisher, also being an author.

Like I don’t wanna do the wrong thing. ‘Cause I also, when I’m there on the job, I wanna give everything I have to the authors. I don’t wanna be like sneakily like on work time, working on my own stuff. And then another author misses out. I wanna do the right thing.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so I was like, how do I compartmentalise it?

And she was like, you can’t. It’s all the same thing.

Breallyn: Oh okay.

Skye: And she was like,

Breallyn: that’s interesting.

Skye: Yeah.

Breallyn: I would’ve thought, no. Yeah, you’ve gotta keep those things

separate. But yeah. Maybe there is more of a flow.

Skye: And she was like, just be a good person and just like be,

Lyndon: Broome time’s come into that.

Skye: Broome time. Yeah. She was like, don’t worry about it. Just

Breallyn: just don’t suck.

Skye: Yeah. Just don’t be weird about it and don’t be, she said it so much more eloquently and beautifully. But I really changed my perspective ’cause I was really trying so hard to be like, when am I an author? When am I, and she was like, you’re just Skye, dude.

Like you’re just Skye and we’re in a town. There’s like only 17,000 other people in the town. I can’t, there has to be times where it is a little bit of a smorgasbord of, you’re my editor and you’re also my friend, and also I’m probably gonna invite you to my birthday party.

Don’t make it weird. And so I don’t really know what I’m doing, but everyone else there is so professional and like they have the lines really clearly. Don’t, I think I’m just a mess.

Breallyn: It doesn’t sound like it at all.

Lyndon: There’s always one in the office.

Skye: And I think that one is me. I’m being really truthful.

But yeah, so I guess I don’t know what else happens really. I guess it’s just

Breallyn: What about, I was gonna say like when does the cover art start appearing, things like that?

Skye: That’s such, such a good question. This is the thing. I also have ideas for the cover art, but I don’t think I’m meant to be the one with the ideas.

Publishing is Collaborative: What Writers Need to Know

And so I don’t know how far can I push it?

Breallyn: I think you’re allowed to have ideas. Yeah. Yeah. I just don’t think they like it when you start sketching out.

Skye: Imagine I like do it myself. I like do something up on Canva and I’m like, this is the cover.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Skye: Yeah. I do. I, and I have things like, I’d really like for the art and the cover to be done by someone who is like First Nations and queer.

Yeah. Like it’s little things like that.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: But I don’t know if I get to be like, I also work here so can I just get a few little extra privileges? But I don’t really know when that happens. And it seems to be different for every book.

Breallyn: Right? Yeah.

Skye: But yeah, I think I really didn’t know what I was doing, so there was like a major edit that happened.

And I wanna be truthful about that. You can get a publishing contract and it doesn’t mean your manuscript’s in good condition.

Lyndon: I was thinking that earlier, like just the fact that the ending is still in limbo, or at least was

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: for a while. But that, ’cause I imagine that there’d be a lot of writers that would think, oh, there’s no way I could, yeah, get a publishing contract until everything was perfect.

Skye: And it’s, that’s absolutely not true.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s interesting. I’ve heard that many times and still somewhere in my deepest heart, I find it hard to believe that you don’t have to have it perfect before.

Skye: Yeah. And I also think it will never be perfect. Like I will never have a novel in my hand that I’m a hundred percent happy with every single thing. Like I’ve let go of that desire. That’s not how it works. Unless you self-publish. And even then that’s probably still true because

Lyndon: I guess too, like with writing, I would never have thought of a book as being a collaborative effort. You think of it as like, it’s written and then these other people have their jobs in terms of just making sure there’s no spelling errors and that everything lines up and that, whatever they do, it’s

Breallyn: typeset. There’s a cover on it, there’s a,

Lyndon: yeah. All that sort of stuff. And then they’re getting it to market and they’re distributing it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I can see, ’cause this happens in the music industry, if someone brings something that’s, they go, this is completely finished, then there’s no room for collaboration.

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: And sometimes that’s a turnoff. You know? It can be a turnoff.

Breallyn: Yeah. That’s right. If a producer can’t then bring their ideas and flavour into an album, if,

Lyndon: then yeah. If there’s no room for them to even act as a sounding board on something.

Like you can’t, you know what you can do? It’s, you’re being checkmated from the start. But I’ve never thought about that with writers.

Skye: Yeah.

Lyndon: You just think that they’re squirreled away in a shed somewhere or in the upper room. And

Skye: it’s true,

Lyndon: with a herbal tea and, they write,

Breallyn: you’re describing me.

Skye: I was like, yeah, feels a little bit targeted.

Lyndon: Write until it’s finished and make sure it’s bloody well finished and good and then come and see us.

Breallyn: Right? Yeah.

Lyndon: That’s what most people would think. I would imagine.

Breallyn: That’s the assumption.

Skye: And I don’t know if it’s the same for like bigger publishers, ’cause I’ve never worked for another publisher. It is very, yeah, I dunno. I think maybe I have had a unique experience. ‘Cause like I started on a slide and now I work for the publisher.

Lyndon: I just find that funny too, like of all the places to sleep, the slide’s kind of a little too vertical for me.

Skye: It was like one of those metal slides that was like this and then there was like

Breallyn: right.

Skye: a flat bit at the bottom.

Breallyn: Yeah. Okay.

Lyndon: It’s a bit of a metaphor too, isn’t it?

Skye: That’s what I’m saying. It does feel like very odd, but I think I’m also like a collaborative person. I think if someone, like if Arlie had received it and been like, there’s no issues with it.

Lyndon: Yeah. You’d be skeptical.

Skye: I will never write anything that that will happen to.

But if that did happen, I would be like, no. What do you think? And also that would’ve been such a shame because then I would’ve never had that moment of, hey, I can be funny.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And it was like 30,000 words shorter. And don’t get me wrong, he may then cut it down. He might then cut 30,000 words away, but the words that he keeps and the words that were there and weren’t there, it’s all gonna be different.

And so I just have a lot of respect. But maybe I wonder if I’d never worked at the publisher, would I be like that? Because when I’ve applied for fellowships and funding and things, it’s just like people’s names are in emails. I’m aware that they’re real people. But I don’t have any sort of personal relationship with them.

I respect them in the basic way that I think everyone should have respect.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Like now, the people that work on the cover and the people that do the editing and the other people in the marketing team and the publisher, I really respect them like as people who like live in my community and I work with in an office.

And I’m sure I would’ve been a kind and understanding and collaborative person regardless, but it’s very easy when you know these people personally.

And I think I’ve also become more of an empathetic author, because I think when people are publishing a book, it’s like your whole life, like you put your whole heart and soul into it, it means a lot to you.

And maybe you don’t think about the fact that this publishing house is publishing, bigger publishers, they publish hundreds of books a year. Like you are not the only one. And I think, I don’t think I ever would’ve been the person that got to the point where I’m like storming in being like, why have you not responded to my email?

But I think maybe I wouldn’t have had the understanding of, hey, the reason that these people take months to reply to me is ’cause they have 30 other authors that are like calling them up, and so

Lyndon: what kind of relationship do they have, or,

Skye: yeah. And it is, you only have so many hours in a day and you have so many authors and so many, every

Breallyn: book is at a different stage.

So I spend a lot more time with you when it’s getting towards a certain like edit being finalised or something like that. Then you’ll hear from them. But yeah, then you might not hear from ’em for a long time.

Skye: Yeah. And like the Magabala authors are really nice. I have never had anyone be rude about it, but I think sometimes maybe I wouldn’t have had the understanding and maybe I could have ended up being someone who was a little bit rude because maybe I wouldn’t have had the empathy to be like, okay, this person I’m emailing, they also are emailing like 10 other authors today.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And so it is a weird,

Breallyn: it’s a really great way for you to come to that understanding. Yeah. Yeah.

Skye: I probably should have been able to figure that one out on my own. But oh, nice. Unfortunately, I did need to move across the country to learn that lesson. But yeah, I guess that’s where it’s at.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: It’s just a Word document right now, so we don’t have to get too excited about it. I’m excited about it.

Breallyn: It’s very exciting and so interesting to hear your journey and like you say, it is a very unique story from the slide to now being in Broome and working at Magabala Books. Yeah. That’s fantastic. Congratulations. It’s,

Skye: Thank you.

Breallyn: It’s incredible and it’s obviously come with a lot of hard work on your part and a lot of hustle and getting yourself out there and being prepared to do things and like, just keep on working. So yeah, you’re very intriguing.

And, yeah. I

Skye: Thank you.

Breallyn: Just been thrilled to hear your story thus far. Yeah. And hope that we can keep in contact and

Skye: Of course.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: Come to Broome.

Breallyn: Oh, it’d be great.

Lyndon: Don’t have to ask twice.

Breallyn: Yeah, exactly. Same thing. Yeah, no, we’d love to.

Lyndon: I’d have to fly there this time though.

Breallyn: Now we’ve got a whole entourage. We’d have to bring them, including the cat. So I don’t know. The cat’s not coming.

What’s Next: Endorsements, Cover Art and How to Find Skye Online

If we can just end on you, if you wanna tell us how people can look you up, how they can follow you, those kind of things.

Lyndon: sounds like you’re everywhere.

Skye: My favourite question. I work in marketing, but marketing for myself is really tough.

Breallyn: It is tough. We’ve all gotta do it.

Skye: I don’t know. I’m doing all sorts of things. Come to Broome and you’ll probably see me, my car floating down Chinatown maybe.

Breallyn: You’ll be in the newspaper with your car.

Lyndon: Checking…

Skye: So true.

Lyndon: Checking the tides.

Skye: I’ll be yeah. Come and see me. I’ll probably be in Coles looking at the tides. No, I have an Instagram account. It’s at one, like the word one, Skye Cusack. I don’t know. You can look me up on the ABC website. You can look at my articles. I would honestly say instead of knowing where I am, honestly, just read Becoming Kirrali Lewis by Jane Harrison. And read Ambiguity by Jazz Frost. And read, oh no, I’ve forgotten, Invisibly Grace by Avery McDougall. That’s what I’d like to use my time to say.

Lyndon: Avery.

Breallyn: Awesome.

Lyndon: Avery, who has your money?

Skye: Avery, who has my money and not my manuscript. Maybe look me up on the Magabala website in a couple of years.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Skye: And then that’s where you find,

Breallyn: and we can read your book at that point and, compare, not compare, but read your book along with all those other ones. I think that’ll be, yeah, a really great little reading project to do all those books at once would be so good.

Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us, Skye, and yeah, we hope to keep in touch and thanks heaps for coming in today. We really appreciate it.

Skye: Thank you.

Lyndon: Thank you.

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