July 29, 2025 · Episode 31
45 Min, 08 Sec 

Summary

At some point, the hustle gets old—and so do we. In this episode, Breallyn and Lyndon reflect on creative growth in midlife and the Chip Conley idea of improving not proving: that quiet shift from chasing approval to following creative curiosity. They talk ambition, internal momentum, and the unexpected freedom that comes with loosening your grip on who you thought you had to be. It’s a conversation about growing up creatively, with a few detours and exactly zero TikTok strategies.

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Transcript

Lyndon: I will sell my body. To get out of that speech.

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Welcome to Pain In The Arts. You are here with Lyndon.

Breallyn: And with Breallyn.

Lyndon: And Breallyn. You have a confession to make.

Breallyn: I do.

Lyndon: Yeah, you’ve stepped into the confessional. You’ve probably got loads of confessions to make, but there’s one in particular that I’m thinking about.

Breallyn: Oh, man. Really? Because, I don’t know. I didn’t, there was nothing particularly on my mind, but now that you’ve said that, I feel like really I’ve got a guilty conscience about, I don’t know. Nothing.

Lyndon: Yeah. No. You definitely should have a guilty conscience. Really? Yeah.

Breallyn: And yet, strangely, I don’t.

Lyndon: Okay, so I’m guessing it’s still out there. What’s on our dining table at the moment? Oh, now you remember. Oh, look at that. Shame. There’s, it’s a shame we don’t have a video podcast because…

Breallyn: There is no shame.

Lyndon: Oh, look at that.

Breallyn: There’s, no confessions.

Lyndon: There should be. Go on. Explain yourself.

Breallyn: The explanation, I’ve gotta go back a few steps, don’t I? To explain.

Lyndon: I don’t know…

Breallyn: What on earth. Okay. Because could explain. Sounds like you’re trying to…

Lyndon: Tiptoe around.

Breallyn: Not at all. All right, so what’s on our dining table? Shall I just say that?

Lyndon: If you don’t, I will.

Breallyn: I don’t know why this is coming back on me at all.

Lyndon: Maybe there’s something different on the dining table at the moment. What do you think’s on the dining table?

Breallyn: All right, so this is what happened. Our eldest son purchased a present for our younger son for his birthday. It was in a long package and… There’s a little bit of a tradition. It’s happened twice now. That when…

Lyndon: But this isn’t the story.

Breallyn: This is the story. All right. This…

Lyndon: Isn’t the story. The story is that I came outta the studio last night to see you heavily involved playing with, I dunno what they are, but they’re definitely little girls toys.

Breallyn: Yeah, but why are there little girls toys?

Lyndon: Why were you playing with them? Is the question.

Breallyn: Well…

Lyndon: Not why they’re in the house.

Breallyn: This is why it needs a larger explanation.

Lyndon: They came into the house. I wasn’t playing with them.

Breallyn: So our, eldest son. Brought two. They’re called like LOL dolls.

Lyndon: As in laugh out loud.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: L-O-L-

Breallyn: L-O-L dolls. And they come in a little round ball that you open up. Essentially he bought two of them. He was making a joke, with the long package that he also bought for our other son’s birthday. A very, you can…

Lyndon: A very lowbrow joke.

Breallyn: Yeah. You can imagine how these brothers relate to one another. So this was all wrapped up and, but they, these two, little, they’re for children for marketed for little girls and they like, you open it up and there’s. Like within this extensive packaging, then there’s even more packaging. Every little single thing comes in, another little package.

So our son was, had a laugh about it, was opening these things up going, what is this, like silly girl toys. And our eldest son’s girlfriend happened to be over and she was like, “no, these are fun. I used to have these when I was a kid”, let’s open them so she was showing us on how you actually open these things up and there’s all these instructions and anyway, there was so many little bits and pieces.

We ended up taking it all over to the dining table and laying everything out. I have photos of my youngest son and our oldest son’s girlfriend having a play with these LOL dolls.

But then our son. After he’d gone through it, a video was like, all right, we’ll see ya. And he left. So then I, stepped into the breach.

Lyndon: Right.

Breallyn: And, yeah, had a, we had a play with these dolls, but I can’t actually believe how cool they are. Like I’ve always looked at that sort of stuff, like that whole, all those shelves in the. In the stores and has gone, ugh. yeah, because you were a tomboy, dumb packaging. And were you a tomboy? You sort were. Yeah, were I definitely was my favorite. Maybe that’s why you’re…

Lyndon: Getting into it now. You’ve seen it. It’s all shiny and you’re like, hang on a minute.

Breallyn: They were actually cool. Like it’s just because at first I just like all these stupid little, shoes to put on a little tiny plastic doll and then little tiaras and that, but…

Lyndon: I just see landfill.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s what I see too. But as, as I was being shown, like there’s instructions, there’s 20 steps for this doll, and so you just…

Lyndon: Twenty too many.

Breallyn: You have to like undo little clips.

Lyndon: Step one, throw in the bin.

Breallyn: No. And find little bits there was one where it’s like a little, it’s like a little compact, face powder compact or something.

Lyndon: Oh, gosh.

Breallyn: All made outta plastic. Of course. Does it…

Lyndon: Work?

Breallyn: We open it up and there’s like magic sand, kinetic sand in there, which is really cool. And then as you press it in and it presses like, does like a print and presses in, but if you discover further go into it, there’s this hidden tiara, which then goes on the little doll. And the most coolest bit was that there was two little bottles that looked like potion bottles or perfume bottles, and you have to pour one into the other and then shake it up and mix it.

And it makes a magic kind of potion with sparkles. And then you pour the whole of that into a mold. And then you wait and as it dries, it then forms a princess gown that you then put the little doll inside of. So it becomes this other. Whole doll. And then if you put it in water, it changes color.

I’m impressed with how much they could fit into that one little package. Yep. A whole lot of landfill. But I had a ball.

Lyndon: Pardon the pun.

Breallyn: Indeed.

Lyndon: I guess I can’t talk because…

Breallyn: You can’t. I may or may not have…

Lyndon: Had a, Barbie boat. Barbie catamaran when I was a kid. Young and impressionable.

Breallyn: Yeah. So there you go. I’ve, managed to avoid a lot of girl toys throughout our parenting adventures. Cause I actually always thought that the boy toys were a bit more fun, but…

Lyndon: And now you realize your whole life was a lie.

Breallyn: No.

Lyndon: The boys’ toys weren’t more fun.

Breallyn: They were quite fun, but. Anyway.

Lyndon: I used to just a stick. One stick. I used to just be told here, go find yourself a stick and don’t come back until the sun sets.

Breallyn: Wow. You were born in 1948.

Lyndon: I wasn’t, but that is a half truth. It was, go out, make your own fun.

Breallyn: I dunno what you’re missing.

Lyndon: You were telling our kids the other day that Gen X has raised themselves.

Breallyn: Pretty much. No one, no. Parents were entertaining children, that’s for sure.

Lyndon: I was sitting out having my coffee as I do, out on the, the white wicker chair. Faux wicker. I think it’s just plastic.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But it is the most comfortable outdoor chair. And yeah, I, I wanted to record this episode outside.

Breallyn: Oh.

Lyndon: In the sun. It was so nice. And I started thinking about how we could make that happen. And then I thought, ah, it’s all a bit too hard. And then 60 seconds later I was freezing. The clouds had come in and I thought, that’s how you know you’re a true Melburnian is when it’s nine degrees outside, you’re sitting in a sliver of sunshine thinking, how good is this?

And you start getting very ambitious about all the things you’re gonna do today in this, on this lovely winter’s day. And I stayed out there for probably another, 10 minutes and I’m just thawing out now and I’ve been inside for probably 40 minutes, maybe an hour since then. And I’m just warming up.

Breallyn: I can’t imagine what outside recording would ha would have to look like.

Lyndon: It’s possible. Maybe we’ll do it one day.

Breallyn: It…

Lyndon: Might mean you having to endure like the elements though.

Breallyn: Oh, if there’s a sliver of sunshine I’m in.

Lyndon: Yeah, maybe we’ll do it in summer. Yeah, that’s probably smarter than…

Breallyn: Definitely. That would be lovely.

Lyndon: But just, just the fact that I was contemplating it, in the dead of winter is well it, you should be questioning my intelligence really.

Breallyn: Sanity maybe.

Lyndon: It’s just being hopeful. And who knows? Maybe that’s a segue into what we’ll talk about today. It might be, I’m actually not too sure I’m gonna start Breallyn by asking you a question. What in your life are you a beginner at these days?

Breallyn: It’s a good question.

Lyndon: What about playing with dolls? Yeah.

Breallyn: I’m a newbie at that. I think I, I definitely feel like I’m a newbie at having adult children. Now. We’ve got two, we’ve actually now got three over the age of 18. The relationship is changing as we become less, parents who are telling our kids stuff and organizing their lives and more, watching them go out into the world and do their thing and supporting from the sidelines, so to speak.

So that definitely feels new and each child is different and, they need a different approach. And, the relationship, really changes over that period of time. So I just feel like I’m new at that. The kids are new at, their adulting and, it’s, yeah, it’s quite hard to know when to step in, when to step back, when to suggest something, when to shut your mouth. Yeah, so I think I’m, certainly learning that I’d like to do that. And not have to like, have them not want to come see me, yeah.

I do remember being a kid and growing veggies with my dad at one of the houses we lived in. That was the thing that we did. We got into the veggie patch and grew some stuff together. That was really good and I’ve always thought I’d like to do that more. And we do have a couple of little veggie beds out in the back, and at the moment they are. Just bursting with rainbow chard. They look beautiful. But everyone’s sick of eating chard, so I don’t know how useful they are. Hey, in my mind it’s the beginning of the homestead dream and…

Lyndon: Is there a homestead dream?

Breallyn: Not really. I’m imagining more veggies. Some chooks. I don’t know. It all comes with this imaginary time that I’m gonna have to spend. Growing the things and then actually cooking them into something that anyone might want to eat. So I dunno.

Lyndon: No, it is good. Although we haven’t…

Breallyn: You sound so convinced.

Lyndon: We haven’t eaten anything from that garden all winter.

Breallyn: Not true.

Lyndon: It’s all salad leaves, that’s why.

Breallyn: Yeah, it’s a lot of salad leaves. I do chop them up and, hide them in birdie’s food a lot.

Lyndon: Now, you know that I save Instagram clips.

Breallyn: I do.

Lyndon: IG clips to, a little inspo folder.

Breallyn: Yes.

Lyndon: That’s short for inspiration.

Breallyn: Which I noticed that I have been put on a share list for that.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

Breallyn: I just want the funny ones. Send me funny reels.

Lyndon: No, these are all ones where I go, Ooh, that’s that’s a good point. It’s…

Breallyn: Now, hang on a second. Yeah. It’s last, time we were talking about when you were a teenager.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I was gonna say it’s a modern version of my post-it note problem.

Breallyn: Oh my gosh.

Lyndon: Anyway.

Breallyn: How do I have to share it?

Lyndon: I don’t know, I’m trying to spread the wisdom, right?

Breallyn: So now we’ve got these, not just post-it notes, but got videos to remind us of how inadequate we are.

Lyndon: So there was one I saved and it was Chip Conley. I don’t know who Chip Conley is, but I liked what he had to say. And so I thought seeing as, now I’m actually gonna be talking about this today. I better find out who this guy is, just in case so apparently he had a hotel empire and then he died nine times in 90 minutes. Wow. And…

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: That’s changed his perspective. It’s changed his, it’s that story of that…

Breallyn: Near death experience. Seriously, that was the plot of the. Show we were watching last night.

Lyndon: Oh yeah. The show you were watching and that you imposed on me.

Breallyn: Kind of. It’s, it was a family show. We were all watching it. Yeah. Having dinner.

Lyndon: Yeah. I wasn’t a fan.

Shifting Midlife Mindset

So what Chip Conley discovered changed everything for him. So he’s built the world’s first midlife wisdom school.

Breallyn: Oh, I love that idea.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s cool.

Lyndon: It is cool and. You do hear as you’re getting older, you do hear people talking about it’s a young person’s world and how everything’s geared towards them, and when you’re younger you go whatever. Yes.

Breallyn: Yes. So as it ought to be.

Lyndon: You’ve had your time old man.

Breallyn: Pretty much.

Lyndon: And then as you get a bit older, you don’t realize that, you’ve had your time. Old man that, that’s applying to you when you’re in your mid thirties. You’re like, what? That can’t be right.

Breallyn: Hang on. I’m still new at this.

Lyndon: So much of the advertising and so much of the focus and the money grabbing and everything is at younger people, and I guess a lot of that is because, if you can get someone early, signed up to your to your private…

Breallyn: Your brand or something?

Lyndon: To your private health insurance. Well you’ve probably got them for life or whatever it might be. So I guess in, it’s not just about pop culture, it’s it’s everything.

Breallyn: It’s about economics, makes sense. Yeah.

Lyndon: And, people find this as they become into that last stage of their life, when they’re seniors or they’re elderly and, now they’re really relying on the health sector that they may not have even thought about before. So it is a little bit sobering to go, oh, what’s this midlife wisdom school? But it’s an, but I imagine, and maybe the reason you’ve gone, oh, that’s a cool idea, is because no one really prepares you for midlife.

Breallyn: Yeah. And your question. From the start was, what am I new at? Or, what am I looking for new? What do you at a, beginning, a beginner at? Yeah. Yeah. And there’s, so many things like, yeah, it’s like we’re always learning new stuff and always having to, step. Like one foot into an unknown future and feeling a little bit unprepared for it.

Lyndon: Yeah. Right from early on. You mean like just now?

Breallyn: Oh, yeah, yeah. Not just now, but continuing now. And I would imagine that doesn’t ever end. Yeah. So what’s, what’s the idea between the midlife wisdoms?

Lyndon: I don’t even really want to be talking about midlife to be truthful.

Breallyn: I’m sorry my darling.

Lyndon: But, anyway, so what Chip Conley has said. The key to living a great second half of your life is shifting mindset from proving yourself to improving yourself.

Breallyn: Ah.

Lyndon: And I thought that was really interesting. Because, you’re setting out on your career following a dream or whatever, when you’re younger, there is that aspect of proving yourself. You’re trying to find where you fit in and you want people to understand that you’ve got something to give. As you get older, that can get lost or you can feel like the goalposts have changed or maybe you haven’t quite got to where you wanted to get to.

And so in a way, we’re all forced to change our. Perspective, I guess in, in some way, something that maybe really drove us, mightn’t be the be all and end all anymore. And, people find that too, like with their families, their families become the most important thing, whereas it may not have even been on the radar early on.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Shifting your mindset from proving yourself to improving yourself, I find very intriguing and apt but I don’t know whether you’ve ever thought about that or even whether you’ve had to feel like you’ve been proving yourself or, I don’t know. I think your journey’s been a lot different to mine.

The Male vs. Female Experience of Midlife

Breallyn: It’s been different and I’m thinking about it in a way that I, certainly feel like that trajectory, speaks much more to the male experience than the female experience.

Lyndon: That might be true.

Breallyn: Yeah. I think women often. We start out trying to go, what do we wanna make outta life? What are we, who are we, what are we doing? What do we wanna achieve? And becoming involved in relationships, building a family, that kind of thing. We very quickly switch that mindset to looking after people and caring and, being like shaping ourselves in order to be the platform that others spring from, essentially. So I feel like that’s been. My focus for a very long time.

So it’s, for me, it’s not so much switching from proving to improving because I feel like I’ve been continually trying to be more, do more, do whatever it takes in order for others to thrive. So this middle life point, like obviously we’re still raising kids to a certain extent and we have a special needs childhood need. Support throughout her entire life.

So it is a little bit different, but just having that little bit of breathing space now, as I said our three eldest children are now all over 18, that care and that support for those particular people, I don’t need to do nearly as much anymore. And over the next few years, I’ll rapidly decrease that as well.

This point for me of midlife, I wouldn’t say improving is the, thing that I’d be focused on, but it will be me becoming all that I can be and looking into those parts of myself that I’ve ignored, squashed, put aside, put on hold. In favor of other people. But yeah, those p those parts I would certainly like to see growth in that area. Yeah. Maybe it’s just a little bit of a different view.

When I talk to my women friends there’s definitely that shift around midlife. It’s, it’s been jokes all through. Our upbringing of like our midlife crisis and the man will buy a sports car kind of thing in midlife. That’s been the joke. But when I speak to my friends who are women, who often have a similar experience, whether they’re mothers or not, doesn’t seem to affect things either like that. Yeah.

Just that looking after, shaping yourself, like trying to fit in, trying to be. What’s required, be the person that’s required and you reach a point of going, I don’t give a stuff anymore. I just wanna be who I am now. And I wanna, show the world what I’ve got and like actually explore that.

I don’t know, I don’t know who that is. I don’t know what I have to give still, so I’m gonna figure it out and really tap into that. Yeah, I think it, it’s certainly the same point. We might just view it a little differently or have a bit of a different experience about it.

Lyndon: Yeah, it is interesting. I read somewhere that midlife can be filled with overwhelming panic. I wrote that, so maybe that’s why I read it. That’s one of mine, one of my uplifting sayings.

Breallyn: Wow.

Lyndon: But it is true. I think that, and you’re probably right, like maybe it is a guy thing. Waking up going, what am I doing? What have I done with my life?

Redefining Success and Self-Worth

Breallyn: Do you reach a point, we, where you said proving yourself and then switching that around a little bit. Is it, do you also reach that point of going, I don’t give a stuff anymore what people think of me? I care more about what I think of myself and who, who I am and, what being true to myself. I care more about that now.

Lyndon: I feel like that would be a point of growth and maturity that, maybe I aspire to. No, certainly that is, is that is part of it. But yeah, that whole that midlife thing I can relate to and the sort of things that goes through your head is, I’m running out of time. I’ve lost direction. Where’s my body of work that I thought I’d have by this age? What’s my legacy? What have I done with my life? What do my kids think of me? There’s all sorts of things that…

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And I think what also happens is you realize that you start thinking about how much life have I got left? Which is not a thought you ever really have when you’re.

Breallyn: Yeah. You’re younger.

Lyndon: On the other side of 30.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Or even 35 or whatever. But I guess in answering like your question, I think there is a tension between the natural inclination to slow down and the pull of an incomplete calling for want of a better, term. I think about in 20 years time or something, would I be satisfied if I was picking up the guitar every day and learning something new? Would that, what would a day look like? Would that be part of a good day? And I think, yeah, that actually would be, yeah.

Breallyn: Sounds like your ideal day every day.

Lyndon: That’s not what I want to do right now. I want that to be part of what I’m doing now.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But I, still have things I wanna achieve and I still feel like I’ve got things to give. Things to be explored, putting my curiosity into, projects that are larger and that I value.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Rather than just just learning something new own guitar every day and, having the curiosity of that is cool, but it feels more that’s just a hobby.

Breallyn: And it feels like that can go somewhere. Like you can put all that knowledge and that, that practice that you’ve put in, you know, let’s see that come through on the next album or something, and yeah. Like then others can be part of, what your exploration led you to.

Lyndon: Yeah, so I think while there’s still that tension between maybe not having to prove yourself, but. The tension of that, there’s, the pull of unfinished work, perhaps. But also the inclination to take life a bit slower and to look after yourself and to maybe start shifting your perspective, I think in a way that can play nicely into the idea of no longer needing to prove yourself. Perhaps all of it can work in our favor in that sense.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I don’t think I ever woke up and went, I’ve gotta, I’ve really gotta make sure I’m proving myself today. I just think naturally when you’re going after something that’s part of the, that’s part of the makeup or it’s in the mix, isn’t it?

Breallyn: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Lyndon: So the tension between slowing down and feeling incomplete isn’t necessarily a problem to solve, but it could be a creative force to harness. So that’s where my mind’s been going. So when you’re no longer driven by that need to prove yourself, which can feel at times a bit frantic.

Breallyn: Feels like a heavy burden.

Lyndon: Yeah. So that. Incomplete calling can become more like a persistent curiosity.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And I think it’s a change that it has to happen otherwise, like you say, it is a heavy burden and it’s also not recognizing, past achievements. It’s not recognizing other aspects of your life that are actually great and worthwhile. It can feel or seem a bit like, especially if you speak these things out loud, like you’re being dismissive of other key things.

Breallyn: Yeah. And the person that you are now is shaped by. All of the things you chased after, leading up to this point, all of the achievements that you’ve done, all the ways you’ve shaped yourself and…

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Learned and, worked hard in different areas. So you’re only this because of that.

Lyndon: Normally with, I would think with, certainly for me and other creative, artistic people is you’re pursuing something, but it’s not like you’re pursuing something because there’s this ultimate goal and you’re going to forfeit so much just to get there. I know people do that, but certainly there’s an acknowledgement of that. It’s gotta be nourishing and it’s gotta have fulfillment along the way. It can’t just be about reaching this particular point.

Breallyn: No.

Lyndon: And I think. And maybe this is like you’re saying, maybe this is a male thing of where we do have this sort of intense focus of getting somewhere or achieving something and we are potentially always in danger of of not seeing the forest for the trees or not stopping to. Enjoy life along the way.

I was talking about that midlife panic, where you go, what have I done? You feel like time’s running out to achieve it. And I must achieve this thing before it’s too late. So I, what I was saying was, for our own benefit and for the benefit of mankind and womankind.

Breallyn: This is a little lofty. Now.

Lyndon: We have to, yeah. We have to switch that from being, Yeah, I’ve gotta do, I’ve, gotta achieve this and make this happen before it’s too late to, I wonder what would happen if I explored this thing. And that’s getting back to what you were saying, where you, and, the girlfriends that you’ve spoken to are more like saying, what do I wanna do? Who do I wanna be? Does me look like?

And I had to do this quite severely a couple of years ago. ‘Cause I realized that I was subconsciously hanging onto an idea of what my life would be from when I was like 20. Even though. I was doing a whole bunch of different things and had lots of different interests and was raising a family and whatnot.

There was this tug in the, the back of my being about like the, path that I ultimately was on, the quest, or one of the quests and I had to look at it and go, hang on a minute, why is that still there? That shouldn’t be, that shouldn’t be my north.

The Domestic Burden

Breallyn: Yeah. It is interesting. I was thinking about this thing the other day. I remember this ad when I was a kid. I can’t remember what it was for. But it was pitched to women and it was saying, you’ll have so much more time in the evening and there’ll be time to…

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Breallyn: Do you remember this ad? There’ll be time, you can indulge your culinary crafts and this poor mom just like trying to serve up fish fingers or something. And then you can, spend some time on a hobby. And I think she’s like sewing, kids like sports uniforms or something.

And then maybe catch up on a bit of tv and the husband is sitting there on the couch watching TV and she’s standing behind the couch behind an ironing board, like ironing everyone’s shirts and stuff. And then she was finally, really relaxed and she’s just slumped on the couch, exhausted from all the thing.

And I don’t know what it was about, but like I remember watching that and going. I never wanna be that woman. Like I, that is, to me, that is…

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: That will be the worst outcome for my future that I can imagine. And it’s almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. ‘Cause I feel like I’ve done all of, I’ve been that woman for so very long. Like just all of that domestic stuff.

Lyndon: Over and over again.

Breallyn: Oh my gosh. And I, and it’s always just oh, I’ve just gotta get. Get stuff sorted, get into this routine, make things go smoothly. Because the, smoother I can make it, the, more, structures I can have in place and, things I can sort out, it’ll mean less hiccups, less things that go wrong, less things that I’ve gotta, damage control throughout the days.

If I do the weekly shopping, then the meals are sorted for the week. If I get, things organized with the washing, then no one’s gonna come to me in the morning and go. I’ve got no socks for school things like that. So I don’t have, I don’t have as many problems and yet doing all those things to try to make it go smoothly just takes up so much time and I’m literally that person doing all this stuff, but.

Yeah, like to be thinking about that, that very sad impression I had of that poor woman doing her, controlling her household. And then yeah, getting to that point of going, oh my gosh. If I was, my age like back then and I could show myself a picture of now, would I be just so wildly disappointed and just enraged at. What I’d allowed myself to become?

Lyndon: There you go. This is the midlife crisis.

Breallyn: It’s just such a horrible thought. ‘Cause I’d probably just go, nah, no Breallyn. Just what have you done?

Lyndon: Ha. We’re not so different after all.

Breallyn: Yeah. Or maybe, but yeah. Yeah, it’s, very sobering to think of the judgment.

Lyndon: Well, I knew you when you were young and Yeah. Had you seen that picture? Of your future? We wouldn’t be together. I hate to tell you this, but in my…

Breallyn: I think I’m just gonna go cry.

Lyndon: In my sock drawer, in my sock drawer, which is not even a drawer on my sock shelf.

Breallyn: It’s a basket on the shelf. Okay.

Lyndon: In my sock basket, there’s at least nine unpaired socks that, I’m gonna need someone to sort out.

Breallyn: Those socks. Can go f…

Lyndon: Those socks, can what?

Breallyn: Can go pair themselves.

Lyndon: Yeah. No, the amount of, okay. Let’s just spend the moment and just say the amount of work that you do and the way that you do it. And the management of the home and I did actually see a, woman bring this pretty much the exact same point up when she was in a session with Peter Crone and he is…

Breallyn: Who’s Peter Crone?

Lyndon: I’ve spoken about Peter Crone before. Peter Crone is known as the Mind Architect, probably his own marketing term, but he’s a personal development expert. And he helps individuals break free from subconscious patterns and limitations. So this woman was saying, yeah, she just feels like she’s been, and I’m paraphrasing here, but essentially trapped in motherhood.

Wondering what else she’s actually got to give what opportunities have been missed by her being so involved. I can’t do any justice to what he was saying. But he basically helped her see. What she already knew, which was how important her job is and how it’s, it’s probably one of the most important jobs in the whole world.

The Value of Motherhood

Breallyn: It definitely is like without mothers doing all that they do. We wouldn’t have a world. It takes 20 good years of dedicated daily work. To raise a human, to, be a functioning decent person that can give all that they’ve got to give. And, to do that day after day is a massive, task. And yeah, extremely important. Should be highly valued. Probably isn’t as valued as much as it should be, but those, those parents who do that, we know what we’re doing.

We know, like you said. Yeah. Reminding us of what we know is we know how important it is, how important it is to give that life to those, little ones who need that support and need that guidance and need that unconditional love, and you showing up every single day in every single way for them. So yeah, I don’t regret my choices being who I am and, raising kids and doing all that it takes.

Lyndon: No.

Breallyn: It’s just that I don’t wanna see myself as. Yeah. That poor mum. Just oh, now you can watch some TV – while you’re ironing.

Lyndon: Yeah. A few years ago when I had my 40th.

Breallyn: A couple years ago now.

Lyndon: A couple years ago, I know I sound like a spring chicken. And you gave, a speech, which was a really nice speech. It was a, nice is the wrong word. You gave a speech and it was a, very it was just a great. What would you call it? A great…

Breallyn: Oh, an oratational brilliance, I think you’d call it.

Lyndon: But I was like, you made me sound really good.

Breallyn: I can’t remember what I said.

Lyndon: No, I can’t remember exactly what you said either, but at the time I was like, oh, wow. Is that what you really think of me? Ah, And so ever since then, let’s say the better part of a decade, I’ve had anxiety about what I’m gonna do for your 50th, what speech? Because when your 40th came and went, and it was at a really difficult time for our family.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And so you didn’t get. 40th.

Breallyn: No.

Lyndon: Just went. So I thought I was only gonna…

Breallyn: Can’t be bothered.

Lyndon: Need anxiety for a few years. But it’s, just kept rolling on, which is.

Breallyn: I didn’t know that.

Lyndon: Which is why I’m sending you to France.

Breallyn: So you can get out of the whole business. Let’s let French Lyndon give that beautiful speech.

Lyndon: I will sell my body. To get out of that speech. Not ’cause I don’t, not, ’cause I don’t think the speech itself would be, true. And that, I don’t want you to hear it. It’s just the fear of public speaking and then maybe some of the homework involved to land on exactly the right phrases. But to somehow, do you acknowledge though, like how do you acknowledge like what you’ve devoted your life to, or such a big part of your life thus far?

Yeah. It’s too big to put into words, so off to Europe for you on your own too, so that I don’t have to toast you while we’re there.

Breallyn: Hang on a second. I, I now feel that. I don’t wanna miss this speech. So how about you? How about just while we are here in the comfort of our own home, no one listening in. You can practice.

Lyndon: Yeah. We’ll have to do a party. For you here anyway, as a backup plan, as the whole France thing goes south.

Breallyn: Yeah, I, looking at my France savings, I think that it’s gone.

Lyndon: It’s gone. It’s gone so far south. It’s in Antarctica.

Breallyn: Yeah, pretty much. And if you’d like to be a patron of the show.

Lyndon: Yeah. Gosh. Let’s talk more about that natural inclination to slow down. And how that might actually serve the work better.

Breallyn: Yeah. And that driven sort of something to prove energy.

The Power of Creative Energy Across Ages

Lyndon: Yeah. I think that is an energy best left for the young people. ‘Cause I just think.

Breallyn: Now we’re gonna be sponsored by Werthers Originals.

Lyndon: I just think of all the great art and music that was put into the world from people that just had that in spades. I was gonna obviously say The Beatles, but I was just watching the Last Stand concert by Cold Chisel and how good Cold Chisel were in Australian band. They were. An unbelievable band fantastic songwriters, but they only lasted 10 years.

Breallyn: Right?

Lyndon: So they’ve got such incredible songs and albums and live performances during only like this decade. And in my mind, because they’re so big here they never broke into the US market. But, they are such, they’re an institution here in Australia.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: That I was surprised that they were only around as a band for 10 years, but they had that same sort of energy, that…

Breallyn: Yeah. A lot of grunt.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: There is, it’s a, definitely an energy that comes with being young and discovering something and, putting it out there in the world all at the same time yeah, definitely.

Lyndon: Yeah, for sure.

Breallyn: It’s, precious, it’s special and it’s, we all love it when we see it. It’s great, but it’s not the only creative energy and it’s not. It’s not always the finest work, it’s just, yeah, there’s just something about some of that work that is really incredible.

Lyndon: Yeah, that, that’s right. I saw someone post the other day about, doing a gig and they were like talking about like what you do after a gig when you’re in your twenties and what you do after a gig when you’re in your thirties. And then they were like, and then in your forties they could barely walk. And I’m thinking, what are you talking about in your forties? Like surely that’s a little too soon. It’s a little bit, overdramatic. But but yeah. Yeah, I’ve seen a meme.

Breallyn: About it and the. The example of somebody in their forties after a gig. It’s the vision of, ET going, “aaahhhh”, on his deathbed.

Lyndon: I had to stop doing this duo gig. This particular gig that ended at, I think it ended at 1:00 AM and I wouldn’t get home till two 30. This was a couple of years ago. And, that was me written off for the next two days. Oh no.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah, so we do have, we do start.

Breallyn: Still gotta harness our energy these days.

Lyndon: Yeah. And slowing down, never used to be a consideration, whereas now it’s something that actually looks attractive.

Breallyn: I think it’s more like. A more considered life and a more methodical use of time, space, and energy is the way that I would put it. Like I, yeah. I know that I’m very conscious of where my energy goes these days and try to make the most of every day. And a lot of that is doing routine things, and getting into habits that Will, enhance our family life and look after everybody.

But, the way that it feels to do those things now feels a lot better than the more driven kind of energy that I had as a younger woman. Even doing sort of similar things, looking after children, sorting out things like, oh hey, I’ve gotta start to research this school or this, medical thing or whatever it is. Yeah, it always used to feel, more yeah, I was just being chased by Hounds to do those things. Now it’s more like I’m just. Walking into, an unknown forest more so I guess.

Lyndon: Right.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Harnessing Curiosity Through Slowing Down

Lyndon: I think, yeah, the slowing down affords us the time to follow the threads that are genuinely intriguing to us. Yeah, I think that’s what’s, I think that’s where the necessity to slow down comes into it. It’s not always just about you’re slowing down because your hips sore or, yeah, some physical attribution, but it’s, it allows you to, get off of that ambitious, travelator. Yeah. And follow other things that you find. Curious or interesting or that you’ve always had an inkling that you’ve wanted to look into it further. So I’m really interested where it intersects your art and your creation of art.

Breallyn: Yes.

Lyndon: Because as much as art, the making and creating of art. Is intrinsically, embedded into our life, and we can’t make it without acknowledging what’s happening with us or in the world at the time, or with the people around us. So as we’re affording ourself the time to actually, follow these threads of curiosity taking a step back from ourselves, if you like.

Being able to view our life from the other side of the fence, if we’re able to then inject that into what we’re creating, it is a way to harness that, that change, or it’s a way to harness the slowing down and still be. Creative and creating things that we can be proud of and that mean something to us.

Breallyn: Yeah, absolutely. I, and I almost feel like the art that can come out of a life that is lived more because you’re just wanting to be who you are and explore all those corners of yourself that. You haven’t had time to so far, and that care about your own self and that’s why you’re bringing those things to light. I feel like that, the art that comes from that place has that potential to be even more beautiful, more nuanced show things that haven’t been seen before. Facets of life that.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Can’t be seen from that driven perspective.

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right. And I was thinking that part of the reason is because the art can only emerge now after, after all those years of experience.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s right. It’s, you’ve come to this point and you’ve Yeah. Honed a lot of things. Yeah. That sort of incomplete feeling that someone like myself might have or realizing that things are changing and you need to reframe.

Lyndon: Your ambition if you like. Yeah, maybe it’s all pointing towards something that can only emerge now. And the other part of that too is, I think this is really key. It’s nearly an obvious one, but you have the wisdom to see both sides.

Breallyn: Yeah, absolutely.

Lyndon: And there’s a certain, I think there’s a certain peace that comes with that.

Breallyn: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And like why else have we striven and gone through so much, if not, to have the, benefit and the beauty of that hindsight and that, that wisdom and that perspective that comes with time. You don’t want to be someone that’s lived this long, all these many, years and not, have gained that unique perspective because of it. It’s actually a really incredible gift that we now have. And yeah. Hopefully that can come across in some of the things we create from here on out.

Lyndon: Yeah, and it’s a pretty powerful creative position really.

Breallyn: Like not being driven by some point you’re trying to prove, but rather being led by your own creative intuition and curiosity. I think that is a, way better place to be creating from.

Lyndon: That’s right.

Breallyn: And it feels better. Yeah. Again, it doesn’t mean that your creation might be better, but it’s just, it will be different and might feel different to you doing it.

Lyndon: Yeah. So if like me, you’re not quite ready to let go of the ambition entirely, and maybe you don’t have to.

Breallyn: No, I don’t think so. I don’t think that the ambition goes, no.

Lyndon: I think the shift is less about abandoning that and abandoning hope, and more about changing how you pursue it.

Breallyn: I think pursuing it with a more nuanced approach and with all that you have within you that you’ve already experienced and learnt, I think you’ll come to some richer results.

Lyndon: Yeah. That is the.

Breallyn: Hope so, because that’s what we are doing now.

Lyndon: Yeah. We, we have no choice. That’s the episode. Thanks for listening, and join us next week for more Pain In The Arts.

Breallyn: See you then.

Lyndon: Bye.

Breallyn: Bye.

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