August 12, 2025 · Episode 33
49 Min, 19 Sec 

Summary

Ever felt like you can’t switch off from your creative work? Like every moment not creating is somehow wasted? You’re not alone.

Lyndon and Breallyn get vulnerable about the dark side of creative passion. They explore ‘Opportunity Cost Anxiety’ and ponder whether they’ve mistaken creative anxiety for ambition. They also discuss the pervasive feeling of creative guilt and the myth of “making the most of every minute.”

It’s a candid conversation that gets to the heart of what it means to be a creative in the modern world.

Share this episode with a creative friend who might need to hear they’re not alone in their struggles.

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Transcript

Lyndon: What are you doing?

Breallyn: My teenage self would punch me in the face.

Lyndon: You would punch you in the face. Yeah, I know. You would punch you in the face. Yeah, absolutely.

Breallyn: Yeah, there was a bit of angst.

Lyndon: And you’re gonna have kids.

Lyndon: You’ll love them. You’ll be like, I’m never having kids get away.

Breallyn: Oh my gosh. Oh,

Behind the Scenes Creative Process

Lyndon: There is a new Echoes of Home episode up for our patrons. Yeah, I’ve got one done.

Breallyn: This is exciting.

Lyndon: Yeah. I haven’t listened to it, so I’m gonna need to have little sneaky.

Lyndon: Yeah. It’s sort of embarrassing because, and I guess this is a true behind the scenes episode. I opened up my voice memo app on my phone, and I know there’s loads of ideas that have been put in there over the years. And, I just thought, oh, what are these last four or five that are in here? And I played them and to my ear, they were all strong ideas for songs. Whereas quite often, like I’d have to scroll through 10 to get one where I go, oh, that’s interesting.

Breallyn: Mm. Yep.

Lyndon: And so one of those ideas I thought, well, this could actually be a song. So I started working on it and then I thought, maybe this could be a companion song to your soundtrack for your book.

Breallyn: Hmm. Oh, that sounds cool.

Lyndon: I don’t know if it was cool, but I know that it was sort of embarrassing because not all of them, but some of them have me just in quotation mark, singing nonsensical words.

It’s probably more to do with phrasing, I think like when an idea catches your ear, it’s nearly like, uh, four things happening at once. It’s like the chord, it’s the rhythm, it’s the melody and it’s the phrasing. So it’s a bit like if you imagine a combination lock, just one of those things isn’t quite, if it’s not the right number or it’s the right number, but it’s not quite locked in, it just won’t feel the same.

And you think about it, go, that actually makes sense because a lot of songs are written with the same chords, very similar melodies.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep.

Lyndon: You know, similar beats.

Breallyn: Yeah. And yet,

Lyndon: So what is it that differentiates them? It’s not, I mean obviously there’s different styles and different instruments and different sounds, but just at the most sort of basic level.

Yeah. As a consequence, a lot of the things that I played off the phone were embarrassing because it’s just me singing things that sound like possible words, but I’m really not thinking about it at the time. So it’s like, it’s not like if I was doing that here and you walked in on me, I’d stop playing straight away.

Yeah. Because, um, I’d be so self-conscious.

Breallyn: I was gonna say you’ve, it’s very sort of,

Lyndon: Because I’m a precious little thing,

Breallyn: Very kind of exposing of yourself because, you know, that’s the sort of thing, it’s like when you jot down in your own journal or you’re singing in the car or something like that, you’re not expecting an audience and yet you’ve taken something that was like your very first ideas, the sort of stuff that never usually sees the light, and you’ve made that publicly available for the paying customer. Yeah. For our patrons. That’s yeah. So its, and not

Lyndon: Only you can actually, you can purchase it from the shop. We have a shop on Patreon which is basically our podcasts,

Breallyn: Like episode by episode if you’re just interested in hearing one thing. Yeah.

Lyndon: So for $3, if you want to hear the germination of some of these ideas, which may or may not go anywhere. But more importantly, if you wanna have one up on me and listen to me sound like a dang fool, then yeah, it might be $3 well spent.

It was kind of fun to do.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But yeah, new experience, it is a little bit like, yeah, imagine singing in the shower and someone walking in on you.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm. I mean,

Lyndon: Maybe singing in the shower, fully clothed and someone walks in on you.

Breallyn: So not quite that level of

Lyndon: No. They’d be like, why are you in the shower with all your clothes on?

You’re listening to the dulcet tones of Lyndon Wesley.

Breallyn: And Breallyn Wesley. Also,

Lyndon: I wouldn’t describe your tones as dulcet.

Breallyn: What would you describe them as?

Lyndon: Oh lilting.

Breallyn: Oh, there you go.

The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows

Lyndon: And I’ve caught you thumbing through one of my books. I caught you on the hop.

Breallyn: If you’re gonna leave a pile of books in front of me, you know I’m gonna pick one up.

Lyndon: They’re all good books too.

Breallyn: Yeah, they are.

Lyndon: I’ll read them one day.

Breallyn: I’ll read this one today. Well, I’ve picked up actually The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows

Lyndon: I highly recommend,

Breallyn: Which is a great book. Yeah. Really great.

Lyndon: Do you ever have a book and you feel like you want three of them?

Breallyn: Yes.

Lyndon: See, ’cause that way I can have one on me all the time. One in here and then well, maybe one in the bookshelf. In the Transcontinental Drifter Room.

Breallyn: Indeed. Which I like to call The Library.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Which other people would call Lounge Room. Yeah. Which on our, when we were being shown through the house, was called a Formal Dining area.

Lyndon: It’s anything but if you have a formal dining area, from my experience, you need to be able to shut that thing away with some heavy glass doors.

Breallyn: Oh man.

Lyndon: This is just all open.

Breallyn: Yes. It’s a very open plan downstairs here. Well, as I said, was thumbing through this book. Which is fun to pick up. It’s such a great book to pick up, just open at the middle somewhere and flick through, put down again. Yeah. Which is, I guess, the sort of thing you do with a dictionary, really.

And I happen to flick across a definition that I think applies

Lyndon: Really?

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Because that it’s not in order at all. It’s more of a collection, isn’t it? Of

Breallyn: It is, yeah.

Lyndon: Of made up words. Yeah. Or made up meanings for existing words. Yeah. It’s a bit of a hybrid. Yeah.

Breallyn: Sort of putting words to, I guess, feelings and things that aren’t usually described in a single word, so. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. Or there’s no word for. Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. Uh, well, this particular one that I came across is called ‘Midding’. It’s the tranquil pleasure of being near a gathering, but not quite in it. Hovering on the perimeter of a campfire, talking quietly outside a party, resting your eyes in the backseat of a car, listening to friends chatting up front, feeling blissfully invisible, yet still fully included.

Safe in the knowledge that everyone is together and everyone is okay, but with the thrill of being there, without the burden of having to be.

Lyndon: See. How good is that?

Breallyn: That’s very

Lyndon: But what was the word?

Breallyn: Beautifully described – Midding.

Lyndon: How do you spell it?

Breallyn: M I D D I N G.

Lyndon: But where’s it come from? Like it should say

Breallyn: Middle English, alternate spelling of Midden, a refuse heap that sits near a dwelling, pronounced Midding.

Lyndon: Is that the only explanation for

Breallyn: That’s the only explanation

Lyndon: They derive it from

Breallyn: Which like, I love the explanation, the word. I’m not so thrilled about,

Lyndon: No, the word itself is a bit disappointing. Mm.

Breallyn: I feel that there should be a word in there where you go to a cafe and you have a nice time with someone, but because the coffee was disappointing, it just ruins the whole effect. Like, I mean, we all describe this all the time.

Coffee Shop Disappointment

Lyndon: Did this happen to you?

Breallyn: There must be. It did happen this morning.

Lyndon: This morning. Who you at the cafe with this morning?

Breallyn: I was with her. I was there with our son. We’d driven to school and somehow his timetable has been changed. So we were like,

Lyndon: Oh, I know it’s been changed by him for the, almost daily, for the last three years.

Breallyn: He likes a bit of a flexible rotation. Let’s say.

Lyndon: I thought I was flexible as a teenager. I would not wanna miss out on any of the radio show in the morning. So quite often I would listen to that and then I would ride to school and then I’d go, I now I’m gonna be late for, what is it? Home group.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: I often wasn’t at home group, and I thought, it doesn’t matter like that all you’re doing is just gather. You’re midding. You’re not really midding, you’re just gathering. Just to say that you were there, like clearly the teachers will know I’m there when I’m in the class. So anyway, that was my little justification, so I’d normally miss that.

But then if I was in danger of like if I sort of had just dragged my heels and I was in danger of missing or being late to the first class, depending on the class, I might decide that I’ll just be very prompt for second period. So I thought I was a bit of a slacker in that way, but our son’s taken it to new heights. I’m so proud of him.

Breallyn: He definitely has.

Lyndon: So, hang on. So you are taking him to school this morning and decided let’s just go to a cafe. So you are like,

Breallyn: No,

Lyndon: Encouraging his truancy.

Breallyn: That’s not what happened at all.

Lyndon: There’s no hope for him.

Breallyn: What happened was we’re fanging it to school ’cause, you know, we left right on time, like hoping to be there in time, realizing that we’ll probably be a little bit late for the first one.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: And then along the way I think he asked me what, you know what subject was first. So he’s driving ’cause he’s doing his Learner’s hours. So I quickly checked what his first subject was and realized that his timetable actually has officially been changed and he didn’t have one to start with. So again, we were gonna be nice and early for the second period, but I didn’t have heaps of time.

But I said, oh well I was gonna get a takeaway coffee anyway, so why don’t we get a coffee? And you know, I have my little favorite cafe down there and so we’re heading towards that. But it’s a busy morning and we saw another cafe that looked pretty packed. And it was just on the corner of a couple of suburban streets, like a corner store sort of thing.

Looked really cute. So we decided we’d pull into there and it was packed and the pastries looked quite good.

Lyndon: So you judged a book by its cover?

Breallyn: Yep. And I didn’t look up what coffee ratings or anything,

Lyndon: You know, I almost written a book on how to spot good coffee.

Breallyn: Mm. We should write it so I can read.

Lyndon: It could be a travel companion.

Breallyn: You know, I mean, it’s an inner city suburb. It’s, you’d reckon you can’t survive without doing good coffee.

Lyndon: There was a time

Breallyn: It was packed, this cafe, like they were literally splitting people up on their tables, putting extras onto family groups and stuff so that they could fit everyone in for coffees.

But we had coffee. It wasn’t super,

Lyndon: Unusual on a Wednesday morning

Breallyn: I was just like, oh, what have they done to my almond latte?

Lyndon: Oh, was it the coffee or the milk?

Breallyn: Might have been the milk.

Lyndon: Really like a different brand than you used to?

Breallyn: I don’t know ’cause I couldn’t see, I was trying to

Lyndon: There’s like 4,000 different brands of Almond Milk

Breallyn: Suss out. Yeah. I couldn’t see what she was using, but the conversation was nice. So. And it was good to just kind of go, wow, we’re early for school for once and we’ve got enough time for a coffee on the way.

Lyndon: So were you midding or not?

Breallyn: No, no. We were fully engaged in the conversation. It was just the two of us.

Lyndon: Oh, that’s true. If you sat there and just listening to other people’s conversations, is that midding or is that just being weird?

Breallyn: I think it’s kind of outside the circle, isn’t it? Because you’re not, like, other people aren’t conscious that you are part of the circle, so they haven’t sort of warmly invited you in.

Coffee Equipment and Nostalgia

Lyndon: Yeah, well I spent some of my pre-bed, actually it wasn’t pre-bed ’cause I dunno how this happened, I ended up on a YouTube video. Shout out to Lance Hendrick. Watch,

Breallyn: You know, just, you know, nighttime doom scrolling. I don’t think you can call it.

Lyndon: No, I don’t think you’d go on YouTube. Oh yeah. I guess it can be. If you go on YouTube shorts, you can be doom scrolling. No, no. I went on there for a particular thing, which I can’t remember what I went to look at. And then saw thumbnail about this new, well, relatively new coffee maker, I guess. And could it dethrone the AeroPress.

And I thought, hang on, what is this? Heresy? And then I thought, actually I have been having some issues with the AeroPress of late. So I had a look at the video and thought, hmm, maybe this is something that we should get.

So have you ordered it? I nearly did, and

Lyndon: Then this morning I thought, hmm, let’s have a look at some more videos about this thing.

So yeah, I’m pretty keen to get, anyway, it’s called the Oxo Rapid Brewer. And do you remember Oxo Cubes?

Breallyn: Yes.

Lyndon: I reckon it’s the same brand.

Breallyn: Oh really?

Lyndon: Yeah. So that is funny. There’s a bit of nostalgia there. I didn’t even know that they did products.

Breallyn: Did you know, we had,

Lyndon: I know what you’re gonna say now,

Breallyn: Uhhuh,

Lyndon: Go on. Because

Breallyn: It just sparked a memory of,

Lyndon: Because I said Oxo Cubes.

Breallyn: Yep. There’s a band called the Oxo Cubans, and I think they must have been friends with our music teacher because

Lyndon: They weren’t Cuban. I know.

Breallyn: No, they weren’t Cuban, but they were called the Oxo Cubans.

They did do some rhythmic stuff and they had sort of brass, you know, and congas and stuff, but yeah, they seem to be able to do like a music workshop with the music students once a year.

Lyndon: They did a stylized version of Cuban music, I think sort of white person’s Cuban music.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But I just like the fact that their name would’ve been lost on pretty much everyone. Yeah. Apart from maybe some housewives or mothers of the children. Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. They were great.

Lyndon: Did you have the album?

Breallyn: Probably. That’s probably what I, the other thing that they did to make money flog their albums to the students.

Lyndon: The Oxo Cubans.

Well, I might get. Yeah, it would solve two problems.

The thing is I do like the flavor of an AeroPress.

Breallyn: What two problems it can make your coffee and your stock.

Lyndon: Yeah, you probably could. You don’t need to. But if you wanted to destroy your coffee maker by putting in some stock cubes, No. Well, one issue I’ve had with the Aero Press, you need to have the AeroPress sitting on a container that then makes it easy. Basically a jug.

You need, you need a what, what do you call a vestibule that has a pronounced lip and a handle?

Breallyn: I think you’ve been trying to write your own dictionary of obscure weird meanings. Anyway,

Lyndon: A jug, you’ve gotta put it on a jug. And all the jugs we have, the top of them is angled. Anyway, you got your data recovery back this week?

Creative Work and Sleep Challenges

I did. Or last week.

Breallyn: Wasn’t that exciting? Amazing.

Lyndon: It was expensive.

Breallyn: Yeah, I know. I know drained my savings account. Yeah. But it is here. I now have back the work that I originally did, so yay for me.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yep.

Breallyn: It feels like a hollow victory, but I mean, it’s good to have

Lyndon: It means you can move on though. That’s a good thing.

Breallyn: Yeah. I think that’s the thing.

Lyndon: You know what else it means? No excuses.

Breallyn: Nice. Well, do you know the amazing, other amazing thing? I think we’ve mentioned a number of times, Birdie doesn’t sleep very well at all. So most nights this week I’ve been on the mattress on her floor and then she gets up and instead of us wandering around the house and doing different things, we’ve made the progress to her actually just hopping in the mattress with me. Mm. And having a snuggle.

And then she sleeps there the rest of the night. But what that means is that she takes up three quarters of the mattress ’cause she shoves her way over. Mm. And literally rests her head on the top of my head and yeah. Just she’s, you say to her

Lyndon: And that’s when you realize how heavy heads are.

Breallyn: Ah, they’re like bowling balls.

She’s, yeah, I don’t know. She’s a such a tiny little thing in that she feels like she’s a hippo in the bed. I dunno, it’s so bizarre. But she’s just, you say to her, move over and you mean, you know, move over your side more, but she moves closer to you, so,

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. So I’ve literally been lying half on the mattress, half on the floor and not sleeping well.

But last night we had

Lyndon: Ah,

Breallyn: A carer overnight. And

Lyndon: So you wrote your book while?

Breallyn: No, tonight we get another one.

Lyndon: Ah, okay.

Breallyn: So tomorrow morning I have a block of time that is my first official like. This is blocked out time for creative writing that I will not allow anything else

Lyndon: Sacred time

Breallyn: To infringe on. Yeah. So I’m pretty excited about that. I’ll have a gonna proper sleep and I’ll be able to work.

Lyndon: What are you gonna do to make sure that that sacred time remains sacred?

Breallyn: It’s kind of difficult because there’s a lot of client work that yeah. Is, but I’ve worked so hard to try to get overnight carers and to find it, what’s the best time in the week for me to do creative work. And according to AI, it’s the time after I have a good sleep. So, you know, I can’t argue with that. Wow.

Lyndon: Thank goodness for AI to be able to reveal that piece of hidden information.

Breallyn: That’s right. I’ve been using AI to do a little bit of a weekly schedule for myself and just trying to go, okay. That, like, that sacred creative writing time has to now be in the schedule. There’s no more.

Lyndon: So what do you do though? Like, I was more talking about like external interruptions and things like that. Like when I say protecting the sacred time.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: So what are you gonna, what are you gonna do?

Well, like shutting

Breallyn: Off notification type things

Lyndon: Or whatever. Yeah.

Breallyn: Um, no, I’m pretty good once I am into a project or a piece of work or something, at doing that, especially if it’s enjoyable, like. Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t sort of have email notifications going off or, unless it’s something urgent, I can ignore it. So that’s why I don’t see the videos? You’ve linked me to the new coffee machines and stuff that you’ve

Lyndon: Oh, no.

Breallyn: Had a look at

Lyndon: No, no, no, no. I don’t link you to those unless it’s coming around to my birthday. ‘Cause the last thing I want you to do is buy me a Falconing Glove Classic.

I’m gonna ask you a sort of question that I hate being asked.

Breallyn: No. Why do it to me then?

Lyndon: No, it’s a very, um,

Breallyn: Am I allowed to decline? To answer?

Lyndon: Yeah, but you won’t.

Breallyn: Okay.

Lyndon: No, I mean, there’s some questions you hate being asked, but then there’s others you just kind of go, ugh. You’re making me think. So if you could go back and talk to the teenage version of yourself, what would you say?

Breallyn: Oh man.

The Struggle to Relax as a Creative

Lyndon: I think, I hate this question because it’s such a generic question, but I am leading to something, as you can tell, ’cause I’ve got my Apple Pen in my hand.

Breallyn: Do you wanna just jump to that thing? Whatever you’re leading to because, um, I don’t know the answer. I don’t know what I would tell myself.

Lyndon: Alright, well it’s, your question without notice is now a question with notice.

So I was, I’d been planning for a while to do an episode titled loosely,

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: ‘Why can’t I Relax? The Struggle to Switch off As a Creative?’

Breallyn: Yeah, yeah.

Lyndon: So I suspect there’s a multitude of reasons why I personally can’t relax, and I did imagine that it wasn’t just me.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: And I’ve noticed that even when, even when I’m somewhere where I should be able to relax, I go, am I doing it? And then I go, I’m not doing it. And then I go, how can, how do I literally am saying, how do people do this? And the only way I think I’ve ever done it is if I’ve fallen asleep.

So for instance, at the beach on holidays.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: So there’s been occasions every summer where I’m down one of the nicest beaches along the Great Ocean Road.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Really?

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Just imagine, a perfect summer’s day, not too hot. You know, the perfect beach weather.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: And just to relax on the beach and I can’t do it. And the best I’ve been able to do is like, I try and let my mind wander on things that aren’t, when I say work related, like not related to me progressing my creative endeavors or my work which is all sort of tied up in one normally.

Yeah. I just find that my brain always tries to solve things or to think about things. And it’s similar to when you hop in the shower and you just go, I’m just gonna have some me time your brain starts working things out.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: It does that sort of before you go to sleep as well.

So the best I’ve been able to do on a beach, I think is just be sort of really exhausted or tired and then start drifting off to sleep. And then I go, ooh, I’ve just slept for a little bit.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: And then I think, is that, is that what people are doing?

Breallyn: That’s it.

Lyndon: Maybe I did it. Other people are reading books and I’ve tried that.

Breallyn: Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know if anyone could actually stop the chatter and like the, the bringing up of the problems and trying to solve things or having an argument with someone in your mind or trying to figure out where you’ve gone wrong in life or I don’t know, like, I think that just is, is that just constant?

Maybe. Maybe some of our listeners can tell us if that’s normal for them too, but yeah, it is hard to relax. I think read, for me, reading is the thing that shuts off everything else.

Lyndon: Reading on a beach isn’t great, is it? It’s too bright. Isn’t it?

Breallyn: Oh, it’s pretty nice. Pretty nice to be able to lie there. You so your body’s actually being warmed by the sun.

And I think the sun’s a bit underrated. I mean, I know there’s studies about cancers and so on.

Lyndon: I was gonna say it does kind of burn you to death.

Breallyn: It does, but you know, like, okay, be in the sun, put your linen shirt on and enjoy the sunshine and relax and read.

Restlessness and the Creative Mind

Lyndon: I know my dad could never relax on the beach, but he wasn’t a swimmer

Breallyn: I don’t think I’ve seen your dad relax at all.

Lyndon: He wasn’t a swimmer. He wasn’t enticed by the water, but then like down at the beach, I don’t think he wanted the sand to get in his fish and chips and mm. Um, I had a client in the studio this week who was sharing a similar experience mm-hmm. The experience of being at a day job or a family function or a professional commitment, but constantly thinking about their music.

Right.

Lyndon: Writing it in their head, working out melodies yeah. And arrangements and then getting overwhelmed by the buildup of all that in your mind. The horrible feeling of absence from making real gains. And it’s an inability to be present.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Means missing out on potential opportunities yeah. And falling behind of where we think that we’re supposed to be. Yep. And this was a big one for me yep. Growing up I think for sure it’s the root of my restlessness.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: I think people get restless for all kinds of different reasons. Some people are just restless because they want to have an adventure or

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: Which I have that too.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: Uh, but it’s different. For me, that feels a lot different. I think restlessness is the inability, this isn’t from the dictionary, this is just something, the inability to be fully present because there’s always this undercurrent of creative work happening in your head.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So is this the creatives curse?

Breallyn: Well, I mean, maybe like, I can certainly relate to it. I know that at the moment, because I’m writing this particular project, I’m always seeing things through my character’s eyes.

So, for instance, if I’m in the city

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: I’m looking at it as if one of my protagonists would look at it like, because they’ve had this time jump from the past. So like, how do they see it? What’s sticking out to them? How would they describe it? What would they not understand about the technologies and the, are people kind of presenting differently? Are they, or are they kind of just this, humanity is the same, but just in different clothing or do you know what I mean? So yeah, I’m always trying to wrestle with these little threads to try to see things through my character’s eyes and hear like I’m hearing their voice in my head as well.

It’s not that I’m trying to just go, oh, I wonder what it would be. It’s literally like, I’m having to see this in this way. So yeah, I can relate I guess to what you’re saying there, like, is it a curse?

Lyndon: Yeah, always living slightly removed from the present moment. I mean, I think when I was younger, there was an aspect to it that I actually really enjoyed.

I felt I was tapping into something perhaps that other people didn’t have access to. I think there’s that, but there’s, there is a couple of sides to it. There’s the not being present, like what you are talking about, where your brain is in creative mode.

Yeah. And

Lyndon: And then there’s another aspect to it, it’s the heaviness of that happening and you not being in a position to capitalize on it.

Breallyn: Yeah. And, and that bit definitely feels like a curse because you feel like, yeah, you’re not present with other things.

You’re not present during your shopping trip because you’re thinking of a character’s voice, but also you are letting yourself down ’cause you’re not whipping out a computer or your notebook and writing it all down and capturing it and making the most of it, and being the best version of the creative self that you can possibly be or whatever, because you are losing that moment in time of where you could be putting something down and you’re not.

That definitely feels, yeah, like a curse.

COVID Creative Output and Feeling Inadequate

Lyndon: When, I was talking to this client this week, we also were chatting briefly about, during COVID, how I was sharing with him that during such a time of upheaval and uncertainty and unrest, a lot of writers, songwriters as well were putting out material and were able to be creative and were able to, sometimes it was about that. And other times it was just they had the time. Yeah. I guess because they weren’t able to gig, they weren’t able to earn an income.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: And I was saying how, for all kinds of different reasons, I had zero creative output from memory.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Like nothing really tangible and felt really sort of inadequate and really bad about that. And it wasn’t until like perhaps 18 months down the track that I started to see on social media, other artists talking about this actual same thing. Mm. And how they felt like that they weren’t worthy because they saw all these other people putting out, you know what I mean?

Like being able to actually respond artistically.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And it was helpful to a lot of people. It was obviously helpful to the artist to be able to have an outlet, but then that was also very helpful to other people. I mean, there were lots of people doing little online shows and things like that.

Breallyn: Mm, yep. All kinds of ideas. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. And there was me and a bunch of other people doing nothing. And the point was made by a lot of people, a lot of other artists, saying that we all respond differently. And there’s loads and loads of creative people that need time to digest things like, you know, they’re never going to write or perform reactively or even in the moment. It’s just, that’s just not how they operate. And I thought, oh, okay. Well that makes sense.

Breallyn: Well, there’s no,

Lyndon: But yeah, it was just this other layer of feeling alone.

Breallyn: Yeah. I think we felt alone in our family as well. Like maybe you’ve forgotten just how difficult it would’ve been to even, like for a start, you didn’t really have a home studio at that point.

You had the studio that you worked at that you weren’t allowed to go to, even though you could have been alone there. During the lockdowns plus, you were trying to run a business and we had the four kids at home homeschooling. No supports for Birdie. It was, there was no time. There was no, there was not even a moment in the day that you could have been trying to isolate yourself to write anything.

I certainly didn’t. I had to,

Lyndon: But I

Breallyn: Like stop going to classes. I think there was nothing happening. I

Lyndon: Think, no, and I haven’t forgotten that, but I think that actually that fuels my point too.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: Because that restlessness that I’ve had for so long at some point, I guess when something becomes so deeply ingrained in you.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: It became ingrained in my nervous system, I think.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep.

Lyndon: You know, and so even when you intellectually know that something is not helpful it’s still there.

So I still, like, even during that time, like you say, it was

Breallyn: Physically impossible

Lyndon: From an outsider’s. Well, even from your point of view and from an outsider’s point of view, they looked at our situation, they would go, no one’s creating anything. Your survival mode is all you’re doing. Yeah.

Breallyn: We’re fighting for our lives here. Yeah.

Lyndon: My brain was still telling me that this is the perfect time to be creating something, you know, like it’s

Breallyn: No, I get that.

Lyndon: Which is ridiculous.

Breallyn: Yep. And the guilt that comes with not

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Doing stuff. Yeah. That never goes away. That’s a horrible feeling.

Discovering Opportunity Cost Anxiety

Lyndon: Well I discovered a thing called the Opportunity Cost Anxiety.

Breallyn: Okay. The Opportunity Cost Anxiety. Yeah. Right.

Lyndon: That constant fear that any moment not creating is a moment wasted, a competitive edge lost, an idea that might slip away forever.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And then I realized and I was like, oh man, I have lived with that for over 35 years.

Breallyn: Yeah, yeah. Opportunity Cost Anxiety. Yeah.

Lyndon: So now I’ve gone, well,

Breallyn: Yeah. That’s interesting.

Lyndon: I think my episode title will be The Anxiety I Mistook for Ambition.

Breallyn: Oh, that’s sobering.

Lyndon: It was very sobering. Basically what is highly likely to be decades long impact of anxiety disguised as motivation. It’s really quite upsetting to be, to be brutally honest, so it’s not just the inability to relax, but the painful realization that what I’ve always believed was a creative strength. You know how I said before, like there were times where I’d and maybe be like at a party and I’m like, it’s a bit of a boring party, and I’d be thinking about all these creative things and daydreaming, I guess.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: I’d be like, oh, I’m accessing something

Breallyn: Tapping into the,

Lyndon: Tapping into something.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Yeah. To life stream. Perhaps what I believed was a creative strength has actually been anxiety all along. Because see that little, like, you kind of go, well, that sort of example I gave then is quite innocent and everyone does it to one degree or another.

But it was more the fact, I remember when I really got seriously into guitar as a teenager and I remember there was a friend of mine at school she did calisthenics competitively.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: And she was always saying to me, one, two, practice, practice, three for practice, practice.

And we are always like urging each other on to be better. Mm. And I mean I thought that I was building up a strength, you know, like a mental strength muscle.

Is that anything? I don’t know.

Breallyn: So what you’re saying that instead of being a strength, that was just you feeding your anxiety over and over again? Is that what,

Lyndon: Uh, yeah, I guess so.

Breallyn: Um, well, I don’t know. I’m gonna challenge that a little bit because I mean, I think maybe, well, maybe it can be both things because sure. Anxiety’s not ideal and you know, we’re living in an age where we’re a lot more aware of the damages of having chronic anxiety.

It’s like the double-headed twin of depression and yeah, it just is not great for you. However stress that converts to performance is definitely seen as a strength or can be used as a strength. And it’s almost like you can’t get the best out of yourself without feeling that rush of adrenaline and stress that comes with that.

So maybe it wasn’t all about a bad thing. I would hate for you to think that you’ve just been anxious this whole time rather than ambitious.

Recognizing Anxiety vs Ambition

Lyndon: Yeah. Well, I think a similar, similarly, I think similar fucked up word that is maybe it’s also a two-headed monster. Anxiety and depression. Mm.

Or maybe anxiety and ambition is, but see, remember too, we didn’t have a word. I mean, there was no anxiety. It wasn’t like, that wasn’t ever a thing when I was at school. Like

Breallyn: It was, I mean, if you count the number of times people said anxiety back in,

Lyndon: It certainly wasn’t a diagnosis.

Lyndon: Yeah. I mean, when I,

Breallyn: It was a word, but it was hardly ever said. But nowadays we’re saying it, every day somebody will say anxiety, well,

Lyndon: You’ve gotta name it, know it, and then you can deal with it, I suppose. But I mean, a couple of years ago yeah, when I had a nervous breakdown, the doctor, and when you have a. When your nervous system breaks down, you come out with all these weird physical symptoms.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Like you actually, at times you think that you’re gonna die. Yeah. It’s really quite unsettling. And then to have a doctor say, yeah, like, you’ve got long term anxiety or whatever it was, something like that you’re under stress and you’ve had chronic anxiety for like a long time and it’s all, and that’s what’s led to this.

You’re like, what? You know? Yeah. You go, it can’t be right. Surely you’ve gotta check for, it’s gotta be something more serious than that.

Breallyn: Check my heart again.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so it’s just a strange thing, but you’re right. Like, if that’s all it was doing, and I’m sure it, I’m sure it wasn’t, but it’s a pattern.

I guess that’s what I’m saying.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: You know, recognizing how we can spend decades potentially carrying something that’s actually harming us, while believing it’s what makes us legitimate artists.

Breallyn: Wow.

Lyndon: So, um, it’s that,

Breallyn: It’s very sobering. I dunno quite what to think about.

Lyndon: Yeah, I know. It’s got heavy, really quick.

What’s,

Breallyn: Uh, I mean, that thing that drives you on like the,

Lyndon: Because you do need it, don’t you? You keep wanting

Breallyn: To do it, otherwise you’d give up or otherwise you wouldn’t be bothered because so many times, the thing that turns out to be good, it’s such a nebulous sort of thought. It’s fleeting and it isn’t much of anything when you start with it.

It’s just a little spark and you have to be driven by something to kind of continue to invest in it and make it better and, you know, create it into the thing. That’s all it can be. So you need it. You need. And I dunno that it is just anxiety that drives you to do it. But yeah, you need to have that constant feeling like, I don’t know, maybe you should be somewhere else.

Maybe you should be doing that thing, getting it down. Not all the time. It’s not healthy, but yeah.

Learning to Switch Off as a Creative

Lyndon: Yeah. I mean, I think that question earlier of, if I went back in time, what would I say to myself? I probably would, you know, I still would say, and I’ve never really, I’ve never thought about this until today, really.

I would say I think I would want to be, I don’t know, like maybe a mentor that I didn’t have, like someone who could say, there’s someone that could point out the difference and go that ambition that you’ve got and that drive is a good thing. You need that. However. It’s also gonna be your Achilles heel, and it will persist your entire life and will have negative effects on you creatively.

So you need strategies to be able to switch off and when particular opportunities arise, that’s the perfect time to put those strategies to work. Yeah. And there would be times where I have done that and I’ve found it easier to do that. And when we traveled Australia, that’s probably an example actually of where I did do it I think that, as a kid I always wanted to do that trip and so doing that in itself was an ambition being fulfilled. Fulfill, yeah. Yeah. I guess

Breallyn: Mind you, you wrote songs during that trip that became part of your first album, so

Lyndon: Oh, did I?

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah. So you weren’t completely putting it aside.

Lyndon: So you can go and listen to that and embarrass me,

Breallyn: You can even

Lyndon: Further even

Breallyn: Buy a copy. We’ve got some in the garage.

Lyndon: Yeah. We’ve, no, that’s a different album.

Breallyn: A different album.

Lyndon: Yeah. That’s a different album. Yeah. So I think that’s what I would tell myself.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s good advice. And it’s not, I guess, not too late to begin applying it too, if you sort of, I mean, you’ve had to obviously anyway, since you got ill, that you’ve got to find ways to be kinder to your nervous system and your brain and, you know, live life a little bit more in the moment.

And just bring more things into life other than just this kind of burning desire to be in the studio doing something and, yeah. And I mean, you know, we’ve had kids, you’re the fun dad for sure. Like all of the playing with them and, you know, having adventures and tickling and fun and all of that.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: You’ve done all that. So you’ve been able to be in those moments and not

Lyndon: I have. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. I think maybe, and I don’t think I missed out on having a teenage childhood either, but when you just know that there’s been ever present force, something pulling at you and kind of nagging at you and that you kind of go, it’s not healthy.

Over time you can recognize it, I suppose, and, you know, it is. And so I do think back and think about me as a teenage guitarist, feeling like every moment not practicing was a moment lost and an opportunity missed. But you’re right. Also, at the time, I felt that that was kind of a bit of a superpower, you know?

And it kept me, it kept me focused on that. And I didn’t get sidetracked by too many other things, and people go, that’s, people go, what are your hobbies? And I go, well, I don’t really have any because this is what I do.

Breallyn: Yeah, yeah,

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

Lyndon: And teenage brains are so good at creating internal pressure systems as well. And when you’re passionate about something. Aren’t they?

Breallyn: Well, I mean, it’s like when, so

Lyndon: I plan, I’m responsible for planting this in my own head. I can’t point the finger at anyone else and go, they told me to do it. I did it to myself.

Cultural Messages About Creative Success

Breallyn: I mean, compared to what a lot of teenage brains are going through, it seems like quite healthy really to be focused on your future, you know, and your ambition and your creative outlet.

Like yeah. You can think of worse things, that’s for sure.

Lyndon: I know, I just know that it’s, it’s both been driving me and exhausting me.

Breallyn: Yeah. I think

Lyndon: That’s the thing.

Breallyn: That’s the flip side of

Lyndon: Like having a drill sergeant.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: In my head.

Breallyn: Yep. Going, you’re never allowed to be all okay in this moment because there’s things you haven’t achieved yet and you know, you are not currently doing this thing. Therefore, how dare you, you know, enjoy the beach.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah. That’s right. Yeah. And the patterns get established. So young, don’t they?

Breallyn: Yeah, they do. And like, I mean, I think that’s one of the things of this self-aware age that we’re in is we’re all, you know, our own like therapist and analytic, I don’t know, analyst, analyst.

So we’re all constantly trying to figure out who we are and what we’re doing still. You know, even when we’re, as we’ve pointed out, not in the first spring of our youth,

Lyndon: You were saying that as a teenager that seemed quite healthy, like, or you would’ve thought that’s quite healthy for me to be so focused.

Yeah, and I was thinking about this too, that I would’ve been praised for that back.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Back in the day, adults would’ve seen an intensely focused teenager who couldn’t switch off from music and thought there’s someone who’s really committed.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep. Who know, you know, who has that drive, which is, who has that, you know, knows what they’re good at, knows what their future is gonna be,

Lyndon: Which be true. Yeah. But then you think

Lyndon: About people that have, you know, adults that have had successful careers they’ve worked hard and they’ve earned the respect of other people. And then they take their own life or what have you. Mm-hmm. And you just go, what, what’s going

Breallyn: On? Yeah. What’s happened? Well, and true for musicians as well. A lot of, unfortunately in the arts, it’s a horrible epidemic of people, you know, with mental health problems who literally have done incredible creative things and, you know, have had what looks from the outside a successful career and yeah.

All kinds of kind of wins and, um,

Lyndon: Not even looks like is a successful career and yeah. You know, and well,

Breallyn: I mean, people define success different ways, but yeah. Like, lots of listeners, lots of record deals, things like that. Yeah.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And it was the culture I guess too around guitar is like you play till your fingers bleed and

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know, the more just for musicians in general, the more you sacrificed the sort of regular normal teenage activities, the more legitimate you were as well,

Breallyn: Right yeah. I mean, it’s certainly one of the things that attracted me to you was,

Lyndon: Oh, there you go.

Breallyn: Yeah. So you didn’t do too badly

Lyndon: Was worth If you don’t, if you say so yourself,

Breallyn: Because you were somebody that did know what you wanted and knew what your one thing was that you were super passionate about and focused on, compared to a lot of my friends and, you know, other boyfriends and whatnot that they’re just kind of more living where they’re at. Not thinking too far ahead, I guess, and not having that one driving thing that they were like, I’m gonna be this thing. I’m gonna be a musician, well, I am a musician. I’m gonna, like, that’s where my career is, that’s where my future is, so.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: Yeah. Like that was like, wow, you are one of those people that those rare breed, that know what they want right from when they’re little. Yeah. You know?

Finding Balance Through Life Experience

Lyndon: Yeah. And I, and that’s true too. I was given a guitar for my seventh birthday and it wasn’t very long after that that I’m like, yeah, this is my thing.

Breallyn: Yeah. Wow. Which is incredible. Really. That’s, that is extraordinary. You know, that the amount of kids that are given music lessons and instruments and stuff and, yeah, it’s not many of them that just go, right. That’s it, that’s it for me.

Lyndon: Yeah. And I thought it was, growing up I thought, or I realized that, oh, it’s actually a good thing to know this because I don’t have to wonder and try things out and go, is this for me? Or, you know, like I just always knew the difficult side of it was then being in the schooling system that is literally trying to get you to try everything, you know, give everything a go and everything.

And for me anyway, the schools I was in was never really like, oh, that is, so you’ve had this dream and goal and talent for how long. Oh, we really should help you with that, so it’s 15, how many years are you at school? It’s a long time,

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: To sort of be knowing what you want to do and not being able to do it. I heard Mark Knopfler talking about this actually. He recognized he was at school, all he wanted to do was be in what was called a beat band back then. Mm-hmm. And he just couldn’t wait to be free of school so that he could go and do it.

Breallyn: Yeah. Right.

Lyndon: Yeah. So, look, I think age has definitely helped in finally being able to tell the voice to stand down.

It’s like you were saying I’ve had to, but it’s it is nice to also know that yeah, you’re right. There have definitely been moments where I haven’t given it another thought, like playing with the kids is a really good example. Like in those moments I’m,

Yeah,

Lyndon: I’m not at all thinking about anything, but just what can I do to make this moment fun and memorable for them?

Yeah. And we’ve had lots of those moments. Yeah. So that’s so, and I got you. Yeah.

Breallyn: Kids are great for that. Yeah. And you got me

Lyndon: And I got you. So it hasn’t been a complete, hasn’t been waste of time.

Breallyn: A total waste.

Lyndon: But, so before, before I end, what would you tell yourself if you went back?

Advice to Younger Self

Breallyn: It’s interesting ’cause I think I wa like, I wasn’t quite, like, if you’d asked me what would be my most favorite thing to do and what would I really like to, I would go, oh, well write books, I guess.

But

Lyndon: Right.

Breallyn: I wasn’t like, I didn’t have the confidence that you had. Certainly. And that a lot of people have like, I’m gonna be this, I felt like, oh, this is a crazy thing that we’re being asked to choose what to do with our lives. How do I know? You know, I’m,

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Like I was more sort of caught up just in being a teenager and experiencing all the, well, what we’re probably hormones I suppose, but just the highs and lows of teenage life.

So, I know that my great love was reading, so I just read a lot and yeah. Wished I could have spent more time reading, which is definitely been the foundation of why I think I’m a better writer, because I would read, but not just for the pleasure, but dissecting it all the time and

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: You know, learning all the time.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: So I guess I would just tell myself. It’s gonna be crazy. Um, but you’ll get there. You’ll have what it takes, I guess.

Lyndon: Mm, right.

Breallyn: Um, I don’t think I would try to push myself into doing things differently or sooner because the place that I’m, I am now, even though I look back and go, oh, like we’ve talked about before, why haven’t I achieved this before this?

Why haven’t I done that? Why haven’t I done all these things? Like, there’s always that, that’s a constant. Yeah.

Lyndon: That’s very unhelpful.

Breallyn: Yeah. It’s not a very nice voice,

Lyndon: Unhelpful voice. Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. If I had have done some of those other things sooner than what would’ve I had to forego in order for that to happen?

And I, yeah. I don’t know that I would want to give up some of the other things that we have done, like obviously including having children, which was a big thing. Like that’s kind of a big chunk of your life. But I wouldn’t swap ’em for anything. So,

Lyndon: You

Breallyn: Know. Yeah.

Lyndon: That’s a shame. ‘Cause I was thinking of swapping one for this new coffee contraption

Breallyn: Hire one out for lawn mowing or something.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah. It’s an, it’s a really, the question is a really unfair question, I think, because if you could go back and tell yourself anything, do you do it so that your life takes a different trajectory and therefore you don’t have all these moments.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And the life that you’ve already lived, which has led to where you are, which is giving you the experience and the knowledge and the wisdom to actually contemplate these things. Yeah, yeah. It’s, that’s why I hate that question.

Breallyn: It is so hard. I know. I just feel like if you were literally confronted with your teenage self, like I would hope that I would just like hold them and not, and encourage like, and just kind of cry.

Lyndon: Your teenage self if someone

Breallyn: I know.

Lyndon: Was trying to hold them and you’d be like, whatcha doing?

Breallyn: My teenage self would just punch me in the face.

Lyndon: You would punch. Yeah, I know. You would punch you in the face.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. Absolutely.

Breallyn: Yeah. I was,

Lyndon: You gotta have kids. You’ll love them. You’d be like, I’m never having kids get away.

Breallyn: Oh my gosh.

Lyndon: Oh.

Okay. Well I think that’s a good spot to leave it. The image of you punching yourself in the face

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: And screaming that you never want kids.

Breallyn: Yeah. And shut up with your stupid advice. I don’t need to hear from any old person like yourself.

Lyndon: It’s so true. You would’ve thrown the roses at them that you were selling at the,

Breallyn: At bottle shops.

Lyndon: At the bottle shop.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: My teenage job. Classic. Oh, let’s talk about that one time.

Lyndon: Yeah. Alright, well thanks for listening everybody, and join us next week for more Pain In The Arts. Until then,

Breallyn: Stay Midding. You know, you can

Lyndon: Stay midding. Yes.

Breallyn: Yeah. Thanks for midding with us today. We hope you’ve enjoyed being around our campfire. And, uh, we’ll catch you next time. See

Lyndon: Ya.

Breallyn: Bye.

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