September 09, 2025 · Episode 37
1Hr, 04 Min, 11 Sec 

Summary

What if the biggest risks in art and life aren’t as dangerous as they seem? In this episode, Breallyn and Lyndon talk about the illusion of risk, reflecting on how fear can stall creative momentum while inaction often carries the greater cost.

From everyday mishaps to big creative decisions, they look at how wonder and uncertainty once fuelled curiosity, and how today’s information overload can leave us stuck. It’s a conversation about rethinking fear in art and life—seeing past imagined stakes, and finding the courage to keep moving.

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Transcript

Lyndon: In this climate today, are you allowed to be a parent and be seen with a lead on the backpack of your child?

Breallyn: Well, even back then it was judged.

Lyndon: Or would you just be like—

Breallyn: Judged so much! And I was like, I don’t care. Look, we’ve gotta get through airports. We’ve gotta, you know.

Lyndon: Oh, was it really judged back then?

Breallyn: Oh, yeah. Anytime anyone, any parent puts a lead on their child.

Lyndon: Oh, I suppose you can’t hit ’em either.

Breallyn: Uh, no. No, you can’t.

Podcast Shoutouts

Lyndon: Since we’ve started the podcast, we just ignore each other in the home. We just move around one another. We dare not say anything. And then when we come to have a conversation, there’s like so many things I—

Breallyn: I know. What do we talk about? Well, the funny thing was we had some lovely friends over on Sunday.

Shout out to Kate. I know she listens to the podcast. Her and I were having a chat. And, um, I said to her, oh, I’ve got something to tell you. But it’s nothing really, but it is a story that I can’t tell you ’cause we’ve already spoken about it in the podcast. So that’s it. So she—

Lyndon: Already knew?

Breallyn: No, she hadn’t listened to that week’s episode, so I didn’t wanna ruin it.

Lyndon: You didn’t wanna—

That’s funny. Well, um, while we’re doing shout outs, I’m gonna shout out to Ricki Wood of Ricki Wood Music, and he’s been a guest on the show, friend of the show, Ricki Wood, but he was here the other day. And we had my nephew over—

Breallyn: Oh yeah.

Lyndon: And uh, so I just said, oh, that’s my nephew, Jake. He’s over from Tasmania. And he goes, oh yeah, I know. And I was like, really? How do you know? He goes, you spoke about it last week.

Breallyn: Oh, wow. So we’re literally updating our friends on whatever’s going on in our little corner of the world each week. We don’t—

Lyndon: Yeah. Well, yeah. Unintentionally, I suppose. Yeah. But, yeah, you see Ricki left a very nice review on Apple Podcasts.

Breallyn: Thanks, Ricki.

Lyndon: Yeah. And so you get rewarded on this show. You get rewarded for reviews.

Breallyn: Ah, for the shout out.

Lyndon: Yeah. You get a shout out.

Breallyn: Ah, there we go. Yeah.

The Smelly Amplifier Story

Lyndon: How many times in a year do you reckon you can afford yourself to make like a genuine error?

Maybe in a lifetime. I’m gonna say in a year, maybe in five years.

Breallyn: Like a really big stuff up. Like what, you forget a dentist appointment or something like that, or—

Lyndon: No, no, that’s, no, I think that stuff is very kind of run of the mill. I think something more to do with like where you have something maybe that you have a conviction about or that you’ve said, right, I’m never gonna do this.

Or something where you’re—it’s near and dear to your heart, and somehow you overlook it or you forget it and then you end up making a mistake that, uh, that you go, that you have to sort of forgive yourself for. Gee, that made it sound heavier than—

Breallyn: Well, it sounds very heavy. Like, I don’t know. You sort of—

Lyndon: I have something to tell you.

Breallyn: I was like, what’s the scale of this? Are we talking about dating the wrong person for like a five year period and then you do it again, or you know?

Lyndon: It suddenly sounded like a scandal.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: No. Look, you may have noticed. Well, I know you’ve noticed sitting outside on the garden seat is an amplifier.

Breallyn: Yeah. On my garden seat I usually sit on, there’s a massive box.

Lyndon: It’s not that big, but it is an amplifier. I’m trying to air it out and I’m trying to get some sun onto it.

Breallyn: No, it doesn’t seem like the usual sort of thing one does to an amplifier.

Lyndon: I know.

Breallyn: Do tell. Why is it there?

Lyndon: Next I’ll be spraying it with a high pressure spray. I had been in the market for an amplifier and one came up at a genuine good price.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: So I sussed out the seller. I had a few concerns. And uh, and then I thought, whereabouts in Coburg is this?

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: And I did, um, you know, you look up the maps and then you zoom in on the house and have a look.

Breallyn: Oh yeah.

Lyndon: And it looked, it looked like the worst house in the street.

Breallyn: Oh dear.

Lyndon: And I thought, maybe I won’t go get this amp.

Breallyn: Not a great start.

Lyndon: And it looked like a share house.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: And it was just, the yard was just all overgrown. And I’m like, uh, anyway.

Breallyn: So if they’re not taking good care of the house, you’re thinking, does that reflect on how good care they take for equipment?

Lyndon: No, I just thought the amp was stolen and there’s been a lot of—oh, right, right.

Yeah. And there’s been a lot of stolen gear lately.

Breallyn: Yeah, this does happen quite regularly, doesn’t it?

Lyndon: Yeah. And, but, um, I asked a few questions anyway. I felt okay, this is probably worth my time to go look at the amp.

So I went down there making sure I had a chance to try it and test it. That it’s all working as expected. So it’s a bass amp. It was a very, very windy day. It was raining. He had it out on the porch, so it was undercover, but you know, effectively I’m standing outside in the wind.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: He had the front door open. And it really reeked of, I don’t know how to explain it. It’s just a house that’s been a share house or a drug den for millennia. You know—

Breallyn: So generations of bedded—

Lyndon: Generational—

Breallyn: Sweat and body odour, drugs—

Lyndon: So I’m testing the amp outside. The smell from the house is coming out—

Breallyn: So it’s like they’ve washed the joint in bong water or something.

Lyndon: It’s, uh, yeah, it was, um, yeah, it’s an amalgamation of so many smells. It’s like it, yeah, it’s—

Breallyn: What else? Cigarette, greasy takeaways.

Lyndon: It’s bongs, it’s—

Breallyn: Dirty socks.

Lyndon: Cigarettes. It’s incense.

Breallyn: Incense.

Lyndon: There’s all of that.

Breallyn: Hopefully not incest.

Lyndon: No, you gotta be careful when you say that.

Breallyn: Okay. So you had the glimmer of a good deal in your eyes—

Lyndon: A good deal.

Breallyn: Yeah. With the bass amp that you had decided you wanted. It was all working.

Lyndon: It’s all working. I could have haggled more, but I said to him, look, it’s a good price. It’s what I would expect to pay for this secondhand.

Anyway, I bought it, put it in the car. I’m driving home and I could still taste the smell of the house.

Breallyn: Yeeeew.

Lyndon: And it’s like, it’s right in the back, the top back of your mouth. Kind of the top of your throat. And I was like, wow, that was really, really strong. Anyway, get home, get the amp out of the car and I smell it all over the amp and I’m like, oh, that’s why I could smell it in the car.

Breallyn: Oh yuck.

Lyndon: It wasn’t that I had ingested the flavors of Coburg share house accommodation.

Breallyn: Oh, it was that you bought a little slice of that heaven back home with you.

Lyndon: Oh—

Breallyn: My gosh, no. Oh—

Lyndon: So yeah, and you know what I’m like with odors? Oh, I am like—

Breallyn: Yes, you’re the odor—I dunno.

Lyndon: Nazi.

Breallyn: Yeah, pretty much the Odour Nazi. In fact, it got so bad at one point you would walk in the house every day and you wouldn’t greet anyone. You would just start sniffing around going, what’s that smell? And those words, “what’s that smell,” are now triggering to me. Because you would do it all the time. And I’d be like, I don’t know. Is it this, is it that? I don’t know. What are you smelling? I don’t know what you’re smelling.

Lyndon: I wouldn’t come in like a hound dog.

Breallyn: You would? You literally did.

Lyndon: A bloodhound?

Lyndon: No, I would come in like a regular person and then immediately I’d smell something and I’d go, oh, and hang on—

Breallyn: And start sniffing.

Lyndon: What’s that? Who’s responsible for Lynx Africa? That’s what it was. It was around that time, wasn’t it?

Breallyn: Yeah. We had the kids getting sweaty as they’re getting teenagery and using—

Lyndon: And boy, don’t they just like to unload a can of deodorant over their entire body and all their clothes.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And—

Breallyn: Pretty much, but it was more than that. Even if they weren’t in the house yet, it would be like, have you cooked something? Have you opened a door?

Lyndon: I couldn’t believe actually the circumstances that led to me purchasing something that has such an obnoxious odor. By the way, this amp’s for sale, if anyone wants it. I give good price.

Breallyn: It can no longer stay in this house. There isn’t—oh, in fact, we haven’t even brought it inside. It was in the garage for a bit. And you did a whole lot of Glen 20.

Lyndon: I just, yeah.

Breallyn: Cleaned it, cleaned it as much as you could. Glen 20’d it. Then the whole garage just smelled like Glen 20 with an undercurrent of share house.

Lyndon: It was Glen 20 is not a nice smell. And from the time when I worked briefly at a rehearsal studio, that’s what they sprayed on all the microphones.

Breallyn: Oh yeah.

Lyndon: Like to keep them sanitized.

Breallyn: Yep. So after everyone had a sing, they just unload a can—

Lyndon: Yeah. That’s like, ugh, that smell triggers me. It just takes me straight back to Moorabbin.

But, uh, have the Glen 20. What flavor is it? Delicious.

Breallyn: Meadow Fresh or something like that, isn’t it?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Florally.

Lyndon: Yeah. And I thought, uh, I don’t ever really like this smell, but I’ve gotta try and kill some bacteria. Maybe that’ll help. And it didn’t. And then I discovered that we actually had my preferred flavor of Glen 20—something like Pressed Linen or Classic Linen or White Linen.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Something like that. And so I added that into the mix and it just was this, now this awful potpourri of ghastliness surrounding this share house bong water smell.

Breallyn: Yuck.

Lyndon: Put your nose to the porthole of the front grill and it smells like a backpacker’s armpit. It is disgusting.

Breallyn: Yeah, no, I can’t believe that.

Lyndon: Ten percent off today.

Breallyn: I can’t believe you’ve made that error. Like—

Lyndon: Yeah—

Breallyn: I mean, I would maybe make that error.

Lyndon: I had to forgive myself very quickly and go, in the scheme of things, not a big deal. I think I can afford to make that sort of mistake once every five years. I think I’ll give myself that.

Breallyn: Because I’m actually now remembering that our—the big rug that we have upstairs in the upstairs mezzanine area.

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Breallyn: I bought that—

Lyndon: Yeah—

Breallyn: From Facebook marketplace and—

Lyndon: Oh, that was nearly gonna have to go.

Breallyn: Yeah, I brought that home and, and yeah, in hindsight they rolled that puppy up real quickly and they, I think they had it out, you know, in their front area so that it wasn’t inside. And it was all very helpfully popped into my car. So then when I brought that home and your nose got somewhere close to it, you went, no, that can’t come in the house.

Lyndon: We’re carrying it in. I went, no, yeah, no, this isn’t happening.

Breallyn: So then thereby followed two weeks of me pressure washing it, scrubbing it out on the front lawn.

Lyndon: It’s fine now.

Breallyn: Yeah, it’s fine now. But it wasn’t for a long time. And that was me being able to get water right the way through it. Sudsing it up using all kinds of cleaners and, um, yeah. So yeah, that’s all good. And unfortunately we can’t do that with electronics.

Lyndon: No. All the advice is take it apart, set all the electronic components aside and set the rest of it on fire, basically. And I mean, even if it all was to be taken care of and the odor was all gone, the speaker itself is holding a lot of that and like, you can’t really clean a speaker.

Breallyn: And correct me if I’m wrong, every time you play a bass note, then this speaker will vibrate and push out air and just like a puff of the share house will come out with it.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

Breallyn: Uh, yeah. It’s gotta go. You can’t keep that.

Lyndon: I know.

Breallyn: Now what are you gonna do? You have to buy a brand new amp. What a shame.

Lyndon: Yeah, back to square one. I dunno, sitting it out there and pretending it’s not bothering me. So that was, um—

Breallyn: I can see by the wildness of your hair that you are very bothered.

Lyndon: I’m bothered about that, but I’m very unbothered about brushing my hair. My hair hasn’t seen a brush since I think 1985. Quite proud of that.

Introduction and Episode Theme

Welcome to Pain In The Arts, where the pursuit of meaningful art meets the unpredictable demands of real life. You’re with Lyndon—

Breallyn: And with Breallyn.

Lyndon: And today we are talking about the illusion of risk and how inaction can be your biggest mistake.

Breallyn: Yes. Well, that’s on theme, isn’t it?

Lyndon: It is weirdly, yeah. Unplanned. Or was it—

Breallyn: Ah, was it—

Lyndon: I think this idea of risk slash reward slash mistake slash regret, it’s a theme of my life. So you saw me cramming out there earlier. I did, next to the smelly amp. The wind was blowing in my favor. So I was like, I’m safe from that armpit for a while. And then the wind turned around, I had to come inside.

But yeah, can you think of a decision that you made that felt like a risk, but then in hindsight it wasn’t as big a risk as you thought?

Early Risks: Traveling Without Modern Technology

Breallyn: Probably when it turns out right, like it turns out all well.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: Then yeah, it doesn’t feel so much like a risk.

I mean, I remember way back in the day when I had just finished year 12 and you and I decided to go traveling and we were just taking your little car, little Toyota Corona—

Lyndon: Corona. ’79 Corona.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Not the Starfire engine. It had the good engine.

Breallyn: The good engine. We had a little trailer, we had a tent, and that was it. Pretty much we set off for 12 months. It didn’t feel that much of a risk, but now when I look back and go, I was like 18 and we didn’t have mobile phones. There was no real internet usage the way that there is these days. So our way of traveling was talk to someone where we were.

There was an internet, but it wasn’t like—like I remember using it at school a little bit, but yeah, it wasn’t like, you know, looking up where you could stay in the next town or where some work might be or anything like that. You just had to hear about it word of mouth, or maybe go to the Centrelink office and look for jobs or just go around farms and figure out who needs some help. So, yeah, it’s sort of in hindsight I go, that was risky. It all paid off, but it was definitely a big leap and it was definitely a—like my family was super against it.

Lyndon: I didn’t know that.

Breallyn: So, you know, to be able to set off and go, this is what’s happening. I’m doing this. I deferred uni. I’ve packed up all my stuff. I’m not making any other plans other than traveling for the next 12 months.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: So, yeah—

Lyndon: I guess you look back now and compared to today, maybe the risks feel high, but it was a level playing field as well, like back then. So it wasn’t like everyone’s got this ability to communicate at the drop of a hat with one another with their mobile phones and all that sort of stuff. And then we were choosing to not have any of that.

Breallyn: Oh, no, it was—it was an era where that wasn’t the norm in the world. So that—

Lyndon: So it’s a different sort of risk assessment back then, I guess.

Breallyn: Yeah. It wasn’t like, you know, my mom was like, oh, I won’t be able to call you every day. She would be like, I’m just gonna be relying on you to call me every time you get into a town. And you remember to, you know, she couldn’t actually directly contact me from her side of things, it was pretty bad. I can’t really imagine how that would be. Sending our kids off—oh yeah, just get in touch whenever you can and we will have no way of knowing whether you’ve died on the side of the road two weeks prior or what.

Lyndon: I mean, I’m sending messages to our eldest child and I’m not getting any response at the moment, so I dunno what the difference is.

Breallyn: My oldest child also lives in a share house in Coburg. Maybe she’s been killed by the smell.

Lyndon: Yeah, exactly. I reckon there’s so many examples of things that I’ve done where it felt like a risk and then it wasn’t as big a risk, or there was perhaps more to lose by not taking the risk or the chance, let’s say.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep.

Lyndon: Proposing to you was probably a risk.

Breallyn: Yeah, I was a—

Lyndon: Even—

Breallyn: High school student.

Lyndon: Well, even before that though, like, just to sort of be in the frame of mind of going, making the decision that this is the person I wanna spend the rest of my life with. Like, that’s—

Breallyn: How’s that worked out for you?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Happy?

Lyndon: I mean, depends on the day, I suppose. As Larry Mullen Jr. said, it’s a musical journey actually. That’s probably what you could say about our life.

Breallyn: Indeed.

The Loss of Wonder in the Age of Information

Lyndon: Do you remember when wonder used to be part of the conversation? And it led to interesting discussions and was, I think a big part of relationship building.

For instance, we’d have conversations with people and you’d bring something up and you’d go, I wonder about that. And there was no Google in your pocket.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And so you would then be—you’d then just be even—

Breallyn: Maybe you wouldn’t know.

Lyndon: Yeah. Even strangers, you know, like in a pub or people that maybe we’ve just met randomly or they’re friends of friends and you’re at a party.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: And you just, you could talk about things and there would be this wonder about the world.

Breallyn: Like, we’ll never know.

Lyndon: Like, yeah, we’d have to find someone who knows about that stuff.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: I think that sort of conversation just led to interesting places and interesting discussions.

Breallyn: Definitely.

Lyndon: And interesting people. And you’d find—do you get what I mean? You could kind go a bit deeper more quickly with someone. Don’t you think?

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Well, I do. Something I’ve never really looked into that I’m interested in is the stars and galaxies and, like the universe outside of the world. And maybe one day it’ll be something that I’ll explore some more.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: But I do remember when we were in America, we were living in California with a family—staying at their place. And the homeowner, the guy we were staying with, Dave, was—

Lyndon: Oh yeah.

Breallyn: Super into astronomy. And he had—

Lyndon: Great guy Dave.

Breallyn: A lovely, lovely man. Dave and Patty. They were amazing, beautiful people. And we—

Lyndon: Hi to you guys.

Breallyn: Yeah. Hey, to the Rice family. And Dave one night got out his big telescope to show us all, and I was expecting the kind of telescope you see like in pirate movies, you know, and it was more like a cannon, like this thing was enormous and you kind of looked down through the top of it rather than—

Lyndon: That’s right.

Breallyn: Like an eye hole at the end of it sort of thing. More like, yeah. It was really amazing. And he would—he had actual knowledge and he was telling us about the different stars and planets and distances and, you know, what they’re made of. And all the—just like all of that really intriguing factual sort of stuff.

Lyndon: Mm.

Breallyn: That he’d spent his lifetime being interested in and developing that knowledge. And so that was like a lovely way to find out. Like, I’d much rather be staying with someone in the Californian hills, looking through their telescope and being told about stuff in the night, rather than looking at my computer and, you know, watching a YouTube on it, like that was a much better way to find that knowledge out, I think.

But yeah, you had to kind of, like you say, there wasn’t always the ability to look everything up, or if you were gonna look something up, you’d go to the library and read some books about it and that sort of thing, or have a chance encounter with someone, or seek out people that were into that thing.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm. The reason I’m bringing that up is because I was thinking about this paradox of knowledge versus wonder. And, perhaps how that affects your ability to take a chance or to move forward in some way. I was just sort of exploring this in my mind.

Early Musical Influences and the Path to Music

Lyndon: So I wanna talk about, just briefly, when I was a mission kid.

Breallyn: Yes.

Lyndon: Now I was given my first guitar when I was five, I believe, or was I seven? Let’s just say seven—

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: And I took to that immediately. I used to carry it around everywhere and all the tuning pegs got knocked off of it because I guess they just hit doorways and things like that. And so that’s how much I carried it around. It’s like you see some kids would carry their blanket or—

Breallyn: Whatever. Well, our third born kid, when he was very little, would just carry drumsticks all the time.

Lyndon: Oh really?

Breallyn: Yeah. I’ve just got so many photos of him just holding drumsticks. He’d carry them everywhere. And then for many years he didn’t continue playing drums, but now he’s a drummer, so—

Lyndon: Okay. It’s weird. I’d forgotten that.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I mean, I don’t remember carrying it like obsessively.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: I just remember like if I picked it up and was playing it, it moved around the house with me.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep.

Lyndon: Now back on the mission I’ve forgotten his name, but he was, you know, the father of a friend, and he played a steel string guitar. Because mine was like a little nylon string. He played a steel string guitar. And of course there was music in the church that we went to in town.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: And that was all just imagined sort of hymns basically. And one year a guy came over from Solomon Islands, and I think his name was Patrick. I just remember my mum and some other women being quite besotted by him—good looking Solomon Islands lad. And he came into the church and would sing and play electric guitar with his thumb.

Breallyn: Oh wow.

Lyndon: And I was like, whoa.

Breallyn: You were also besotted by Patrick.

Lyndon: I was also besotted by Patrick and his Islander ways.

Breallyn: Oh, I think I’m a little bit besotted by Patrick right now.

Lyndon: Smooth as butter. Anyway, and I remember Mum bought me a vinyl called 21 Golden Guitar Greats.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Which was really sort of my first foray, I guess, into hearing some classic songs. It was a guy called Bert Weedon.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Who was a well-known session guitar player, I think, in the UK.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: And he was basically doing covers of songs by the Shadows and so on.

Breallyn: You know, so songs—

Lyndon: I’d never heard, I didn’t know any of these songs.

Breallyn: Yep. So they were classics to the wider world, but to your ears, they were brand new.

Lyndon: And they were instrumental versions.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: So I had the electric guitar influence and musical influence of Patrick. I had another album, although I don’t remember having it on vinyl, and it was Herman’s Hermits. And I thought they were awesome. So that’s when I sort of heard more of these sort of harmonies and Beatle-esque kind of tunes.

Do you know any of their songs? Mrs. Brown, you’ve got a lovely daughter.

Breallyn: Yeah, I remember you singing around the house. No, I have heard a couple of those things.

Lyndon: No Milk Today. My Love Has Gone Away. Oh yeah, they’re touring Australia this year and I’m like, really? Oh, what is this? Are they holograms? Are they the real original? Is it the OG Herman’s Hermits?

Breallyn: Clones of the originals.

Lyndon: I know I should go along. I guess that was the start of my journey of wanting to be a musician and, I think back then too, it was more of just an affinity with the guitar and with music and with melodies and all that sort of stuff. And then, as life went on, I’m like, yeah, I want to—this is, I couldn’t get away from it. It’s like a calling, I suppose.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: That’s probably the best way to describe it.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But I was thinking about this, had the internet been around in those years and in the years after that and when I was really sort of solidifying, you know, my path forward and what that might look like, I wonder and I doubt actually that I would’ve decided to become a musician.

Breallyn: Really?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Wow.

Lyndon: Probably in greater part to the social media side of the internet, because there are so many brilliant musicians. Like, you just get on there and it’s like, wow, that person’s fantastic. And I think my nature of just sort of being shy and intimidated and you know, I don’t think I would’ve necessarily been able to—I don’t think I would’ve gone, “oh yeah, but I have something unique to offer and it doesn’t really matter about all of that.” I think I would’ve fallen for the, you know, like, oh no, like that person’s way better than I could ever hope to be.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm. So the intimidation of being like comparing yourself essentially to others?

Lyndon: Yeah, I’d say so. Because I know I felt that like when it came to doing sports and other things where it’s quite obvious where there’s someone really talented.

Breallyn: Mm. Oh yeah. It’d be so hard. I dunno how—I dunno how the kids these days do it, but, yeah.

Lyndon: Well, I mean, I imagine it does change things for the—

Breallyn: Well, I imagine it does.

Lyndon: I mean, the whole landscape with the music industry has changed anyway. But, we come from an era where basically you’d hear a song or you’d hear about an artist because a label had decided they were worth investing in.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: They could see a spot for them.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: And they could see a way to turn a profit on that person. It doesn’t mean that person wasn’t talented. If they already had a Madonna on their label, they weren’t looking for another one.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So from the perspective of someone growing up and that’s your exposure to music, you can sort of hold onto this dream and you can hold onto—there’s so much mystery and there’s so much wonder about the whole thing that you can see a place for yourself in it somewhere, somehow, someday, you know?

Breallyn: So it was like, because there was such a whole lot of the unknown about it and you know, this kind of ethereal, I wonder what this corner of the industry might look like. I wonder, you know, how I would feel like, because there was no way to put those parameters in by exploring all the answers. You feel like the wonder of it was what kept it fresh and interesting and intriguing for you to keep going forward? Is that—

Lyndon: No, I think that’s just—it was always, it’s just there. I think what I’m saying is more of the fact that if there was this constant stream of people in front of me, that looked like me and or were younger than me or were whatever, and were just playing extraordinary and doing extraordinary things musically, I think that would’ve been enough for me to kind of go, oh, I’m clearly not talented enough.

Breallyn: Would it have stopped you from practicing and like enjoying playing guitar?

Lyndon: No. That’s what I mean.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So because—so like when you’re talking about the mystery and the wonderment and all that and there were corners of the industry that I didn’t know about, and that was sort of like alluring to sort of see how I might fit into that.

While that wasn’t a thought going through my head at all. It wasn’t, because I was just enjoying playing the guitar and experiencing music.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But now like, you can basically just type in how to make it in the music industry and you’re gonna be presented with I think three main avenues of information.

Breallyn: Right.

Lyndon: I think one is gonna be telling you all the tried and true methods and it will make it feel like if you follow these steps, you’re gonna make it, or you’ll have a good chance or whatever.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: And navigate that how you will and choose to download, you know, the 10 steps for independent musos to be heard on social media or whatever, you know? You know, go through all of that and this never ending list of what to do. That would be one way. Another way would be something that looks very similar, but is actually just not even correct information. So I think you gotta weed that out, you know?

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Because I think there’s just stuff that’s—I saw some the other day and yesterday and I felt like commenting on it and just saying what, who are you? Like—

Breallyn: Yeah. But I—and surely there’d be that many people trying to make money outta people. Like, follow my course and I’ll teach you how to be a musician in 10 easy steps. Like, you know, stupid stuff like that. Just collect money from people and spit ’em out the other end with no further—just more confusion and more thinking that they’re on the right path. But not even being—

Lyndon: I mean, I found it hard enough anyway, just as a young man, you know, trying to work out how to promote my EP or my album and where to play and how to put a band together and who should I talk to. And you know, it’s not—just because we’ve got all this information now doesn’t necessarily make it any easier, I suppose.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But you may, you jump online now, like, and you’re trying to work it out and you’ll find, you know, this is the third avenue, which is 99 things to not do, you know?

Breallyn: Oh gosh, yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. A hundred things to not do. So I think—

Breallyn: And the weird thing is that—

Lyndon: You can be overwhelmed with what to do, what not to do. And it all sort of leads to paralysis. And so that’s why I was kind of calling it a paradox between knowledge versus wonder.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I actually think the wonder side of it, it means there’s sort of more possibilities, I think?

Breallyn: And surely you’ve gotta make mistakes along the way because that’s how you learn and how you sometimes get propelled along a different avenue that you wouldn’t have taken otherwise. And I bet with all those, you know, 99 things of what not to do, literally every successful—in inverted commas, but well-known band that’s created a career for themselves would’ve made all of those mistakes and many, many more.

You know, and all of the things that you should do, there’d be heaps of people, you know, artists and bands that have not done those things and—

Lyndon: And it’s like I’ve spoken before about there’s all these sort of documentaries or lessons or whatever, on how to record a song or how to put a song together, and they’re basing it off of classic songs, you know, this is how it’s done. It’s like, yeah, that’s not how it was done. Like, if you’re listening to the results of it and working backwards, that’s not how the song was—

Breallyn: That’s not how—

Lyndon: Put together.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And so like trying to dissect something and then come up with all the ingredients. I mean, maybe it works for like a cake, it doesn’t mean that that’s actually the way or the right way to record your song, to make it sound like that. And it’s certainly not the way that song that you’re looking at came to be.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So, I mean, it’s sort of—

Breallyn: Because yeah, I mean the creative process can only happen in a forwards direction and then the analysis of what somebody else has done, it’s going in a backwards direction. It’s completely different. Sure, you can take the inspiration and the knowledge of what someone else might’ve done or some of the processes or whatnot, but you’re not gonna end up with the same results.

You’ve gotta take different course along the way and some different risks and some different decisions. And even if you didn’t, if you followed everything exactly, what’s the point of that? You’re just gonna end up with something the same, that’s like an inferior copy anyway.

Lyndon: I mean, that happens all the time, I suppose.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: As well.

Risk, Inaction, and Creative Pursuits

So sometimes, not taking a chance on something or not taking a risk—that inaction is the risk, don’t you think?

Breallyn: Yeah. Oh, for sure. I mean, I think in doing big things in life, it has to come with a risk and creating big things or the thing that you envisage and you have that urge to make, that has to come with a risk.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: And it’s—yes, sometimes it can be a really big risk, and it always comes with a cost of like your time. And the fact that time that you spend may come to nothing. And also you haven’t then spent that time doing something else that will produce some income or, you know, some results in some other way. You’re kind of putting all of those eggs into that basket of creative risk.

Lyndon: Um, yeah, it’s really important to do ’cause you can’t really create without it. But the other thing is, I mean, we are parents. We used to take a lot of risks with our lives and doing different things. Like, it was always really clear to us, like, yeah, of course you’ve gotta do—

Breallyn: The risky thing and, you know, just go for it.

Lyndon: And it’s important to work out your risk profile. And I think for couples too, you sort of, you know, you kind of need to be somewhere on the same page with that, I think.

Breallyn: Yep. For sure.

Lyndon: It helps. Although, you know, I mean we’ve started talking now about creative risks and so on. There’s a whole bunch of—every decision you make in life together as a couple, there’s an element of risk attached to it, but for someone else, it’s not a risk at all.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s right.

Lyndon: It just makes common sense, like, why wouldn’t you do that?

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So, yeah, it’s important to sort of be on the same page, but yeah.

Parenting and Changing Risk Perspectives

Breallyn: Well, I was just gonna say like my view of risk definitely changed once we had kids because I feel like there was—

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: So many years I was telling our kids don’t do that. Get down out of that tree, like—

Lyndon: Yeah. Your language starts changing.

Breallyn: Oh, absolutely. We had one of our kids was a real monkey and he would be up every tree like he’d be up everything. Climbing roofs, everything. And I’d, all I’d be looking at is like the ground underneath him going, that’s concrete. When he drops out of that tree he’s gonna hit—I remember being in—I think we were in Wilson’s—no, we were in the Grampians and we happened to be in a spot where there was quite a few people, and all of a sudden I’ve heard somebody say, look at that idiot up on the cliff. I’ve turned around and it’s our son. I’m like, oh, it’s my idiot.

Lyndon: Well, he did run in front of a bus when he was two. Was it in America?

Breallyn: Yeah. Don’t—

Lyndon: Oh my gosh.

Breallyn: Yeah. You—

Lyndon: Saved his life.

Breallyn: I ran with the newborn baby strapped to my chest. I ran and reached him just as he was running out in front of the bus. And the bus was sort of trying to slow. And I grabbed him by the back of his clothing. Ripped him out from under the wheels of that bus. It was the most terrifying moment of my life.

Lyndon: Yeah. I watched it all unfold—

Breallyn: And then I sat down on the sidewalk and cried. I just burst into tears. It was so horrific.

Lyndon: I wonder if his risk profile has changed.

Wasn’t he wearing one of those backpacks that you attach a lead to?

Breallyn: Oh no. That’s when we—

Lyndon: Purchased—

Breallyn: Purchased that after.

Lyndon: Oh we, yeah, after that. Gee, can you still—in this climate today, are you allowed to be a parent and be seen with a lead on the backpack of your child?

Breallyn: Well, even back then it was judged.

Lyndon: Or would you just be like—

Breallyn: Judged so much? And I was like, I don’t care. Look, we’ve gotta get through airports. We’ve gotta, you know.

Lyndon: Oh, was it really judged back then?

Breallyn: Oh, yeah. Anytime anyone, any parent puts a lead on their child.

Lyndon: Oh, I suppose you can’t hit ’em either.

Breallyn: Uh, no. No, you can’t.

Lyndon: Oh, that’s funny.

Emotional Risk in Creative Work

Now, last week you did mention that you didn’t want to write anything that didn’t cost you, so there’s an emotional risk as well. I don’t know if you remember saying that, but—

Breallyn: Well, yeah.

Lyndon: When you’re talking about your sabbatical—

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: You know, what the work means to you and what writing means to you. It’s like, you wanna be—you want to enjoy the writing, but you also want to enjoy reading what you wrote. And be satisfied with that. And you know that if it didn’t cost you anything, then—

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Then you know there’s a risk—

Breallyn: The worth isn’t in it.

Lyndon: There’s an emotional risk that you have to be willing to take.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: To get closer to what you want to see.

Breallyn: I think that’s definitely a thing with all the arts, isn’t it? If you create something that you feel wasn’t from the depths of your soul and it didn’t come with that cost, you didn’t have to go through some kind of transformation to get it out, then yeah. The worth of the art isn’t there. I mean, you hear about visual artists, you know, who will like, ruin their canvases because it hasn’t—it’s not the thing like they know in some way it wasn’t the genuine piece—

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: That they should have created. And so even though looking at it, other people would go, oh wow, that looks really good.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: That’s not the point of the art, you know?

Sliding Door Moments and Life-Changing Decisions

Lyndon: Yeah, the idea of missed opportunities—maybe that’s a motivator to take a chance on something.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: The thought of, oh, if I don’t do it, it’ll be a missed opportunity. And then that leads me to thinking about sliding door moments. Which was a pretty good movie, but sliding door moments retrospectively, really, they’re not really worth our time, are they?

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Maybe historically in some situations when you look in the greater scheme of things and maybe worldwide events, you’d go, oh, if this person didn’t do that, this wouldn’t have happened. And you know—

Breallyn: Yeah. I mean, you probably could for every lifetime. I mean, for instance, you and I met randomly on a beach one day because me and my family and my friend were at the beach. And you and your friend happened to have come down—you were in Frankston at the time, living in Frankston. You came down to Rye or—

Lyndon: Yeah—

Breallyn: Wherever we were—

Lyndon: Tootgarook.

Breallyn: Yep. And just happened to wanna go for a swim on that particular beach, there’s miles and miles of beach along that bay.

Lyndon: Yeah. It was completely random.

Breallyn: And you happened to be there on that day and then spoke to my friend who was out in the water, and then I came out to meet you.

Lyndon: She said, I’ve got a friend. Do you wanna meet her? And I thought, oh, on one hand it sounds like this particular girl’s not interested in me ’cause she’s suddenly spruiking her friend. But also I’m not interested in a relationship with this girl. So I think while that thought was happening in my head, it was clearly a moment of what appeared to be indecision. She says she’s blonde.

Breallyn: There you go.

Lyndon: And I went, done, send her out.

Breallyn: Well, I at the time was having a nice read on the beach. I was nose deep in my book and my friend said, do you wanna meet these guys? And I was like, nah. Because my book was more interesting at that point—

Lyndon: Hang on.

Breallyn: She said, this is your—

Lyndon: This is your sliding door moment.

Breallyn: This is my sliding door moment, I suppose, because, you know, I was like, oh, I don’t really wanna go for a swim. I had just come out from having a swim. I was wanting to read my book and, um, and she said, oh, one of them plays guitar. Now at that time I played guitar and I was really into music and, you know, playing stuff and sort of—so that was my—and—

Lyndon: Aaron used to play guitar as well. Yeah, that’s true. Maybe he’d stopped by then.

Breallyn: Yep. Yeah, that was the hook. So there we met. I mean, that was definitely a sliding door moment, wasn’t it? Like if we hadn’t met then none of this would be taking place.

Lyndon: I had to go down to—’cause I’d bought some digital music equipment that didn’t come with a manual. And I knew someone that lived down there that had the manual. There were no PDFs to download.

Breallyn: I mean, imagine these days they just take photos of it and send it to you.

Lyndon: It happened to be like 41 degrees. It was a really hot day. 41 degrees.

Breallyn: It was—

Lyndon: Celsius.

Breallyn: Yes. A hot one—

Lyndon: Unusually hot for Melbourne. We get a couple of those days a year. Maybe 3, 4, 5. And, uh, so I said to him, mate, hey, do you want to come down with me? It’s gonna be a great beach day. We were just driving along the coast to find somewhere to go to the beach and you just happen to be—

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: On that same beach.

Breallyn: There we go. Planets collided.

Lyndon: Which is not very far from where we go now.

Breallyn: I have such great memories of when I was a kid down here. Me and my friend Bianca, who I was talking about last week—we used to go down there on holidays and we used to ride our bikes out. We’d say to our parents, can we just go for a ride? They’d go, yeah, no worries. And they just thought we were riding sort of literally around the caravan park and a couple of streets near the shops, but we would just ride as far as we could in whatever direction to deliberately get ourselves lost.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

Breallyn: And then we’d just try to have to find our way back.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: So I’ve kind of got all these great memories of being a kid down there—

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: And then meeting you down there when I was older, a teenager, like, yeah, 16 I think I was then. And, um, and then memories of us taking our little kids down when we used to stay at my auntie’s beach house. And now, yeah, our kids are older and we sometimes go down with them or we go down together. So it’s just been this really special place that’s always been associated with holiday time and somewhere to go with people that we love.

The Big Risk: Going on Tour

Lyndon: My sliding door moment is when we went on tour with an independent band.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: And we went overseas and that had so many risks, I think involved—

Breallyn: Oh, yeah. Yep.

Lyndon: With it, just sort of throwing in our lot, I guess with this band and with another person’s vision and dream and—

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Traveling overseas with an open-ended ticket? I guess, is that right?

Breallyn: Yep. We didn’t—

Lyndon: We didn’t know where we’re gonna end up.

Breallyn: We just—we only bought one ticket, one way ticket to America.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: And, um, yeah. Didn’t buy return tickets, which did get us in trouble. Let’s tell that story another time.

Lyndon: Yeah. And I don’t even think we can do that anymore. But, you know, I do think about this every now and then because that was wrapped up in a risk and us going, yeah, let’s do it. You know, like there was adventure, there was mateship involved, there was a whole lot of things that—

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Sort of piqued our interest or—

Breallyn: A sense of possibility and come what may kind of thing.

Lyndon: Yeah. So it did tick a lot of those boxes for us, but at the same time, I just released an EP.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s true. And so—

Lyndon: I had to make this decision about do I—shouldn’t I be marketing this? Shouldn’t I be beating my own drum and forging my own way forward rather than putting that aside and going all in with this band.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And I think it’s a strange one for me, because I know all the reasons that I, or that we chose to go ’cause it wasn’t just going on a tour, it was leaving our country, but leaving what we’d created in terms of our family and our family base. Like pretty much upending that and leaving all that behind—

Breallyn: Pretty much.

Lyndon: To give up—

Breallyn: Our house we were living in and sell a business and wrap everything up. Leave everything. We were working at a church at the time. We had to resign. We had to hand over, train up other leaders to take our positions and—

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: Yeah, it was a lot. It was just a lot of things to do.

Lyndon: Yeah, it was a lot. And you know, I sort of think wouldn’t the better option have been not doing that and instead me going, well, like standing behind myself as an artist that I was trying to set out to be and doing that hard work. Not like what we did wasn’t hard. ‘Cause it was obviously—it had enormous challenges.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: I think it would’ve been easier, obviously for us to just stay put and for me to invest more in my own career.

Breallyn: Yeah. Um—

Lyndon: And maybe career-wise that would’ve been a better decision. I don’t know. It’s hard. ‘Cause like we’ve spoken about this before and you’ve pointed out all the reasons that that experience was a good one. Like all the positives from it. And how you wouldn’t change it. But then I think, oh—

Breallyn: I do choose to look at the positives too. Like, yeah, there was definitely some challenges not just while we were traveling, but then when we came back and we moved into a different part of Melbourne—

Lyndon: It’s really—it really is how you—

Breallyn: So much to unpack actually here.

Lyndon: Yeah, I mean there’s—it comes down to how you reframe things, I guess.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Or how you look at things because I think too, and I’m not saying that that was a mistake that what we did, but you can look at it in so many different ways and I think when you do make a decision or you take a risk that maybe didn’t work how you were hoping, you sort of have no option but to reframe it in a light or in a way that makes that—that enables you to keep going and to keep moving on and to not become stagnant and, you know, like, don’t you think?

Breallyn: Oh, for sure.

Lyndon: I don’t know whether that’s—you can’t go back. The measure of whether something was—the measure of regret or, yeah.

Breallyn: I think we made that decision in the best sort of head space that we could at the time and like with the best, you know, like we were genuine and we really did look at the pros and cons. We were just—

Lyndon: That’s right.

Breallyn: Not caught up in something. And I think, I mean, we are talking right now about risk. There’s so many things that we could talk about about that decision, but—

Lyndon: And hindsight is so unfair.

Breallyn: Oh yeah. I—

Lyndon: Think—

Breallyn: But we’re talking about taking a risk. One of the predominant thought processes that we had at the time was that we lived in the same area since we’d been married, we’d been attending a church and we were working there doing different things. We’d had our third child had just been born like literally five weeks before we left. So, you know, we were sort of right in that early stages of parenthood where everything’s just really hands on and very full on.

And one of the main reasons that we decided to upend our very small, young family was because we didn’t like the sense of being too settled.

Lyndon: Mm, that’s true.

Breallyn: And, you know, like what—one of the things was what if we stay here for the rest of our lives and we never make a big decision or take a bigger risk or just kick ourselves out of our comfort zone.

Lyndon: Yeah. The danger was—

Breallyn: Yeah. That was a big thing—

Lyndon: Was appealing to us.

Breallyn: Yep. Absolutely. And I think that, I feel like that was probably one of the predominant things, was like, if we don’t do it now, when are we gonna do that?

Lyndon: Yeah. And because we’d had that experience of like traveling for a year. And you know, we know what we gained from that—

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So we know that—we know the risks or the perceived risks that we took by sort of leaving everything behind and going for—I mean, we knew we’d be—we planned to go for a year. But how worth it that was—

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: And then you’re right. When we came back, we were like, oh man. Like we’ve just—we’ve started a family like we wanted to, and that’s all good. But yeah, it was this opportunity came—

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: Came along. And we didn’t just jump at it. We really weighed it up, but that was—yeah, you’re right. That was a big part of it.

Breallyn: That was a big part of it because we were like, how often do opportunities like that come like that you can—and it’s certainly not start again, but like, have an adventure or like, close up and finish up all the things you’re doing in favor of starting something new, in an industry that you wanted to be in. You know, playing more, playing music a lot more and live gigging and stuff.

It was hard to sort of say—it wasn’t so much that it was hard to say no to that particular opportunity, but it was like when you start saying no to opportunities and to risky type of opportunities. How often will they come along? They—you might never get another one. You’ve gotta say yes when it comes.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: But when that chance comes, you have to do it because you might not get another chance.

Lyndon: And also between coming back from traveling and then leaving with this band, I had done my debut album.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: And then I’d done a follow up EP.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: And doing that stuff solo is a hard slog.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Doing it as a band is a hard slog. But so what I had, ’cause I’d obviously been playing with this band locally and what I had really enjoyed was the mateship and being in a band—

Breallyn: Yeah. For sure.

Lyndon: And—

Breallyn: Other people’s energy toward a single focus is incredible.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: When you’ve done it on your own for a long time.

Lyndon: Yeah. So, that was a big factor in it as well. So I knew that, okay, I’m leaving—I’m leaving behind the reality of having to pedal my own wares and keep that thing going.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: But I’ll come back to it.

But interestingly enough, I haven’t released an album since.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So it did—it did have an impact. It’s not—that’s not the reason I haven’t released an album, but it’s that sliding door moment, isn’t it, where you kind of go, okay, what would’ve looked different and so many things would’ve been different.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah, I know that’s true. I think there’s a lot of reasons why you haven’t released an album since, and probably all of those would’ve happened anyway. So you might just have not have had that chance to release another album. But still we’d be living in that same area doing, you know, similar things. I dunno.

Lyndon: Well we may—you don’t know. ‘Cause another opportunity may have come along. We said no to the last one. We’ll say yes to this one.

Breallyn: Yeah, maybe.

Lyndon: Yeah, true.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: You gotta live your life forward. You can’t live it backwards.

Breallyn: Maybe.

Lyndon: I mean, we can look at all sorts of examples of where something was presented to us. We felt like it was a risk, we did it and it wasn’t that big a risk after all. Others were like there—we had to count the cost a bit more and—

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Something I wanted to mention before we finish—I mean we have sort of touched on overthinking and we’ve discussed overthinking on other episodes.

Breallyn: That’s right.

Lyndon: But like, even when we’re talking before about when you get overwhelmed with information online, you can start overthinking everything.

Breallyn: Absolutely.

Lyndon: If that obstacle wasn’t there, or if you can somehow remove it, then maybe you are left with the wonder and pursuing—you have to talk to people rather than sitting on your own, you know, numb with indecision and misdirection and—

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And whatnot. So like what if the decision you are overthinking right now is the one that you’ll regret not making?

Breallyn: Ooh—

Taking New Creative Risks

Lyndon: Now, recent experience for me. So when I set up this studio, it didn’t feel like a risk so much at the time, and I sort of was setting it up for me primarily. But I did have the idea of it would be nice to have people come and record here—

Breallyn: But it also represented you closing up shop, essentially in the other studio you were working at, you had a room there that you were renting. That was your space to create stuff. You had access to the rest of the studio and then removing all your stuff, giving up that space. That was part of, you know, what it cost essentially to set up this space that you are in now. So there was an element of risk—like a greater element of risk around that too.

Lyndon: Yeah. Although, I suppose when you’ve—when projects are dropping off and not coming in and you know, the studio changed ownership and all that, it makes that decision easier because the risk isn’t as great.

Breallyn: Yeah. True.

Lyndon: But I had been wanting a change anyway.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But at some point I had to go, you know, do I want—do I wanna be recording other people or not? ‘Cause if I do, I need to tell people I’m here.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s so true. So—

Lyndon: Then I have to like—that was like, that’s a bit risky, to sort of go, all right, well I’m—now I’m open for business.

Breallyn: Hang out your shingle and see what comes along.

Lyndon: Yeah. Shop’s open. So that was something I wanted to this year do. And I admittedly, I did some recordings last year—

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: When I was still sort of getting this place finished. And the other thing I wanted to do was start playing in the alt country Americana scene and start getting to know people in that. That was something I wanted to do.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Which meant having to reach out, put my hand up—

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: And once again—

Breallyn: Firm up some of those connections and make new ones and—

Lyndon: And that felt—that felt like a risk.

Like for someone that’s been tucked away in the northern suburbs doing my own thing for over a decade.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: To start then having to have these specific sort of goals and then have to make myself known to other people.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Like, that’s felt a risk for sure. Maybe more of an emotional risk. I’m not sure.

Breallyn: Yeah, I was just gonna say, does it feel like a bit of a risk of rejection as well? Like—

Lyndon: It’s not a financial risk ’cause I’m sort of going from earning nothing to nothing.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: But—

Breallyn: Like, you know, yeah. I think for a long time, both you and I have felt like just because we’ve been so exhausted, so limited in our creative pursuits because of—

Lyndon: Circumstance?

Breallyn: Our responsibilities to care for our daughter. And like our personal lives and our interests have had to shut down so much that we felt like we didn’t have much to offer for quite a while. Like, it just felt like we were doing nothing. Therefore we—not that we meant nothing or that we are nothing. But just, yeah. It just—

Lyndon: You do feel like you’re being left behind as well.

Breallyn: Yeah. And everything kind of shrank too. A very small and very scary kind of world really with our daughter being so sick. So we’ve had to sort of gradually crawl outta that space, that head space when she was stable, to be able to expand our own view of ourselves and what we do have to offer.

So definitely that risk of rejection feels like something—like, you feel like you’re gonna reach out to go, Hey, world, hey industry, I’m here and they’re gonna go, so? You know, like we—you’ve got nothing that we are interested in, so go away.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: So that definitely—that emotional risk is there for sure.

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right. And also like, just the same as when I was a little kid and I was just so content to just sit and play and learn.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know, I mean, I taught myself guitar till I was 15.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: My curiosity wasn’t lacking. My ability to find on the fretboard what I was hearing in my head. Or at least find something close enough that satisfied me.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know, I certainly wasn’t a prodigy. My satisfaction with life with having a guitar in my hand—that hasn’t changed.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And so now, I could be totally happy sitting in the bush long as I’ve got running water, food and blah, blah, blah, and a guitar. So I sort of, I don’t need all these other things, but at the same time, I really wanna be involved in them, these recording activities.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: And I want that sort of mateship that I guess was attractive in the band.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know, I do miss that. And it’s changed how I see myself fitting into other bands as well. Like, I’m totally happy to sort of just be the guy in the band that’s not noticed, you know? I think that community is something that I would like to be a part of, but at the same time, I’m just so happy to just sit on my own and play guitar.

Breallyn: Yeah. I definitely feel that—it’s such a pull in two different directions of like sitting within that tunnel of—that it’s endless for me, endless books to read, endless things to write. I don’t necessarily need to connect with other humans on a like in real time. I can just connect with their words on the paper, you know?

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: But it’s—it really is important to get out of that tunnel from time to time and reach out to other beings. But you’ve had—you know, you’ve made that, taken those risks and—

Lyndon: I’ve made the effort to get out and see some gigs—

Breallyn: Made new connections—

Lyndon: Meet some people. It’s—and I’ll tell you what has helped in that too.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Not in getting out of the house, but what I’ve noticed, and I just sort of noticed this week, is when I’m meeting new people, you know, so I’m always anxious about meeting new people. I’m anxious about greeting people at our front door to be fair. I don’t like doing it even when it’s people I know. Like for some reason, I feel like I’ll say something inappropriate or I won’t say the right thing, or I won’t greet them in the right way.

So like, you can imagine, like, if I’m out at a gig I’ve gotta talk to people, it’s like, yeah, it’s even worse. But what I have noticed is if someone introduces me—Hey, this is Lyndon. He owns a studio, or, he’s recording my EP or anything like that.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I’m like, oh. It just makes it so much easier.

Breallyn: Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure.

Lyndon: I mean, for sure. It sounds obvious, I suppose, but it hasn’t—

Breallyn: An introduction.

Lyndon: Well, an introduction other than just, this is my mate Lyndon?

Breallyn: Yeah—

Lyndon: The name, like, putting some context around it.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Has made these conversations a lot easier. And then making connections with people much more pleasurable and just more natural I guess. I don’t have to navigate all that sort of awkwardness—

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: It’s paying off because you have been asked to play bass.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: With a band at an upcoming festival, I believe.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm.

Breallyn: But what that has meant is that I’m hearing a lot of bass practice at night and you had to buy a bass amp, which is why there’s a stinky box sitting in our backyard.

Lyndon: Yeah. That’s sort of—

Breallyn: Worth the risk, or I don’t know.

Lyndon: It’s—I mean, that is the reason that stink box is sitting out there. Was it worth the risk? Only once I get rid of it. All the gig money is going on the losses.

Breallyn: The losses of—

Lyndon: Of the share house amp, actually—

Breallyn: Buying and selling a share house amp.

Lyndon: I’m gonna say hi to someone else. ‘Cause his comment was funny. I put a post about it when I got home—the post was, any ideas on how to remove the smell of a share house from an amplifier? And, um, a mate, Tristen Bird. Hi Tristen. Up in BrisVegas. He just sent me a message and said, “order an Uber and send it back to Brunswick.”

Breallyn: Without knowing where you got it from. ‘Cause he’s formerly—

Lyndon: Of Melbourne. Yeah. Without knowing where I’d got it from, I said, mate, you’re close. It’s Coburg.

Breallyn: Which is for those who don’t know, it’s the next suburb.

Lyndon: He says there or Depreston.

Breallyn: Yeah. So—

Lyndon: We have a suburb called Preston and people have referred to it as Depreston and—

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: In fact there’s an album called Depreston isn’t there?

Breallyn: Yeah, it’s—yeah. And a song. Yep.

Lyndon: Yeah. There’s a song by Courtney Barnett called Depreston.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Which is actually pretty—

Breallyn: Yeah—

Lyndon: It’s a good song.

Breallyn: Anyone from this side of town just hears that term and goes, yep.

Closing Thoughts on Risk and Calculated Chances

Lyndon: So was it worth it? We will see. We will see.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Alright, thank you everybody for tuning in and listening and, go out and take a calculated risk.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Or—

Breallyn: Tell us about it—

Lyndon: Or don’t take a calculated risk. Just take a risk without any calculations at all.

Breallyn: The very nature of a risk makes it more entertaining—

Lyndon: For everyone.

Breallyn: We’ll catch you next time. See you. Bye.

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