April 21, 2026 · Episode 64
45 Min, 23 Sec 

Summary

Is creativity a gift for the few, or a fundamental human energy we all possess? In this episode, we dive into the philosophy of Australian designer Ben Rennie and his book, Lessons in Creativity.

We explore the vital distinction between “creativity” as a human energy and “art” as a final product. By focusing on the two pillars of curiosity and generosity, we discuss how to dismantle “scarcity thinking”—the belief that ideas and recognition are limited resources. From finding inspiration in the details of a seashell to the bravery of sharing work early for collaboration, we’re looking at how an abundance mindset can lead to a more confident and creative life.

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Transcript

Breallyn: How’s your Easter shopping going, Lyndon?

Lyndon: I don’t think I’m, I don’t think that falls on me. There’s nothing to shop for for Easter. What do you shop for apart from Easter Eggs?

Breallyn: This year I’ve bought a whole lot of fluffy socks for all the kids, and I say all the kids. It’s an expanding list of people.

Now we’ve got two son’s girlfriends plus one of Bertie’s support workers who will be with us at Easter. So everyone’s getting fluffy socks and Easter eggs.

Lyndon: Including me.

Breallyn: You don’t get any fluffy socks.

Lyndon: Well now you’ve ruined the surprise both ways. The surprise, if I was getting them would’ve been ruined, and now knowing that I’m not getting anything. I’m getting chocolate.

Breallyn: You might.

Lyndon: I don’t know, maybe I’ve had enough of Easter eggs. It was kind of soured a little bit with the carb eggs that I’ve spoken about.

Breallyn: You probably need to get over that. It happened over 40 years ago.

Lyndon: It did not, did it? No. It was still happening. It was still happening after that. That’s probably when it was happening the most was 30 years ago, those teenage years.

Yeah. Carb, you know what? It’s an acquired taste and after a couple of years you get used to it. It’s fine and I’m over it, truly.

Breallyn: Well, usually I get you Ferrero Roches.

Lyndon: Ooh, I do like a Roché.

Breallyn: You’re happy with those. And then you sometimes go, “Huh? Well, I don’t know if I want these every time,” Mr. Fussy Pants.

Lyndon: Ferrero Roches are good. It’s good to see our son washing his car.

Breallyn: It is. Yep.

Lyndon: I don’t know why it’s good, but it feels good to watch others do manual labor. For a start, his car looks so much better washed.

I mean, most cars do, but I mean his really does. It must be just the gray color.

Breallyn: Yeah. That dark gray.

Lyndon: As soon as it gets some dust on it.

Breallyn: Yeah. Gray. It really shows it. Yeah. No, and it comes up so nice when it’s washed too. So yeah, he’s doing that.

I noticed he did make a reel sitting in his car. I’ve just seen it on Instagram.

Lyndon: What? Okay.

Breallyn: But it’s like advertising the gig that his band has in a couple of days’ time and he cranks out the music and, yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, well, multitasking.

Breallyn: Yeah, definitely do it all.

Lyndon: I suppose you gotta find ways to incorporate social media into what you’re already doing. That’s probably key. He’s a young bloke. He knows, probably knows how to do it.

Probably doesn’t think, overthink it like some people.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Probably not, but I think it is just good to see him doing some manual labor, to be fair. Something more than just scraping last night’s dinner into the bin. Yeah.

Breallyn: I know. He has done a fair job too. I’ll have to get him onto our cars. I know.

Lessons in Creativity with Ben Rennie

Lyndon: Welcome to Pain In The Arts, where the pursuit of meaningful art meets the unpredictable demands of real life. My name is Lyndon.

Breallyn: And I’m Breallyn. Thanks for joining us today.

Lyndon: Now, you’ve heard of Rennie, the antacid tablet that looks and feels and tastes a little like chalk. It’s the same texture as chalk. Big favorite in the household?

Breallyn: Not really. It’s just you that has it?

Lyndon: No, no.

Breallyn: And offers everyone else.

Lyndon: All the kids love it. They don’t. We’ve established it. They love it. They always ask for it, but have you heard of Ben Rennie?

Breallyn: I’ve not heard of Ben Rennie.

Lyndon: Okay. So—

Breallyn: Did his family make their fortune in the antacid business?

Lyndon: Probably. He’s a bit of a big deal. Perfect esophagus. I believe it. The collective noun might be an “esophagal guy.”

Breallyn: That’s what they’re known for, those Rennies.

Lyndon: He’s an Australian designer, writer, and he’s a creativity advocate.

Breallyn: Yeah. Cool. So once you’ve got your esophagus clear, he can then move on to the creative arts.

Lyndon: He popped up on my reels some time ago.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Yeah. I think he works with some bigger companies as well, like I know he’s done work for Nike.

He’d be an interesting guy to talk to because a lot of these sort of creative arts philosophers seem to morph over into the corporate world and help corporations.

Breallyn: Hmm, that’s interesting.

Lyndon: Yeah. Help corporations and—I think that’s—I’m not saying that’s exactly what he does, but you know the corporate world, I’m led to believe—well, I have been in the corporate world here and there.

And I think they do look upon the arts as going, “Oh, we need some of that to sell our products.”

Breallyn: To sell the products or to just motivate the team, or to design products, obviously. Mm-hmm. Or to design logos. I mean, there’s obviously lots of crossover.

Defining Creativity Beyond Art

Lyndon: But he’s got a book titled Lessons in Creativity: Stories and Strategies to Cultivate Your Creative Confidence. That’s a mouthful, Ben.

Breallyn: Yeah, it is. Yep.

Lyndon: And this mouthful—

Breallyn: Of Rennie.

Lyndon: A mouthful of Rennie. Yeah. So like with a lot of these authors, they’ve got a wealth of words that they can put up on social media. They can pull things from their book, can’t they? Just stick it on posts.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So this was one of those: “Creativity is not art. It is the confidence and energy for great living.” So that caught my eye.

Breallyn: Mm. Nice thought. Yeah. Is it confidence and energy for great living? It is a nice thought.

Lyndon: But it’s also—I mean, it was just saying creativity is not art. There’s a tension in the statement, I think as well. And over to you.

Breallyn: Well, for—I mean, I think art tends to be often—I’m tempted to say a final product, but obviously there’s art forms that are about the experience, like being part of a performance or watching a performance.

Or being part of some interactive experience. So sometimes it can be an experience rather than a product.

It’s more like the creativity is the impulses that surround it and give it the impetus to become something. And I like that broader term that creativity doesn’t equal art.

It’s not “this equals this” or “these are the boundaries of it; it’s only about art.” Yeah.

Lyndon: So in his book, he challenges the notion that creativity belongs to artists and argues instead that it is fundamentally human, rooted in showing up with generosity and curiosity.

It goes on to say that creativity is about agency. It’s how we connect and make sense of the world. And my immediate thought was, should we, or do we need to separate the two ideas, one being creativity and one being art making?

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: Like, would that be helpful?

Cultivating a Creative Existence

Breallyn: What occurs to me is that we can all increase our creativity, then we can lean into it more deliberately by giving more time and weight to our curiosities and to being generous.

And to sitting with those interesting little side quests that we all have and those kind of things. Cultivate a creative existence.

I think that—I like that idea and certainly something that, maybe not in those words, but something that I’ve been deliberately doing over the last year or two since I didn’t have to focus solely on Bertie’s health.

It’s been the thing—that more creative life, a flow of creative ideas and experiences. That had been something that had been missing for quite some time and I’ve enjoyed.

Not putting pressure on myself to be more creative, but enjoyed giving myself some time and just noticing little things that allow that creative flow to happen a lot more.

And yeah, just giving into that curiosity, but yeah, generosity as well. That’s an interesting thought as well.

It’s like the generosity of spirit to be able to enjoy and embrace others’ art. See where those ideas take you and how they interact with your own and so on. Mm-hmm. It’s a nice open-minded way of being.

Lyndon: Yeah. I found it curious. My curiosity was piqued.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm. Nice.

Lyndon: That’s P-I-Q-U-E-D, piqued. Mm-hmm. How does generosity fit into it? And you said it, generosity of spirit. So approaching the world without defensiveness.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And being open to other people’s ideas rather than protecting your own. It occurred to me—I mean, yeah, I noticed this a lot in my early days of trying to somehow break into the industry, whatever that means, you know?

It’s amazing the amount of people that were really holding things tightly and not—

Breallyn: Yeah, there was a lot of gatekeeping and—

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: I’m not sure, like that’s probably still the same in some instances.

Avoiding Gatekeeping and Fear in Art

Lyndon: I mean, gatekeeping kind of tends to feel more like you needed to be in with the right people.

So, yeah, I’m sort of thinking maybe this is more like artistically, or people write something but then they don’t wanna show it to anyone because they’re scared that if someone else inputs into it, then they’ll want a part of it or something. I don’t know.

Breallyn: Yeah, maybe. I’m not sure if that’s gatekeeping, that’s just being protective and defensive.

Lyndon: And protective.

Breallyn: Yeah. And I’m not sure whether it’s because times have changed or whether we’ve changed that we are not as protective of stuff.

I think the fear around “someone’s gonna steal my idea and then quickly pump it out and then they’ll get the credit for it, and I still won’t have produced whatever it is,” I think that’s disappeared certainly from our thinking.

Not that we were guided by that all the time, but I think that was in the creative communities that we tended to be a part of back in the day. It was a lot of the unknown and fear-based type stuff.

Obviously there’s a lot to be wary about and worried about in creative life now. Yeah, it is. It’s a lot.

But that having a change of attitude and being more curious, more generous of spirit—yeah, I think it goes a long way in life, but also in being able to follow those threads of curiosity and see what happens creatively out of that. It can often lead to unexpected and pleasantly surprising results.

Lyndon: Yeah. And I think the best ideas generally, they rarely happen in isolation. Certainly. Um, you probably have the most fun generating ideas when it’s with other people.

Breallyn: Yeah. That’s it.

Lyndon: And a lot of great ideas have obviously come in isolation, or seemingly. But yeah, I think that’s probably a true statement that generally the best ideas, they don’t happen in isolation.

Breallyn: They are inspired by something else. Like usually there’s not an idea that is completely disconnected to everything else in the world. It’s usually connected somewhere through something.

Lyndon: Hmm. Yeah. Here’s a point about generosity of spirit. Mm-hmm. When you’re generous with your attention, your time, and your curiosity about others, you absorb more of the world, which leads to creative thinking.

Active Listening and Absorbing the World

Breallyn: Yeah, I would agree with that.

Lyndon: Yeah. What I was gonna say right at the top of this topic was, well, we don’t normally come up with something to talk about because we’ve got the answers. Like I know from my point of view, I go, “Oh, what’s this all about?”

You know, something that I find curious or something I haven’t really thought about before. And then that’s generally how I bring things to the show. And this is no different.

It’s like the idea, like when he said showing up with generosity and curiosity. I’m like, curiosity I understand, but it was the generosity part. Mm-hmm.

It’s like, how does that—what does that look like? Why is he talking about being generous? But it makes so much sense.

You know what, it’s a little bit like when you’re having a conversation with someone, but you’re just thinking about what you are gonna say. So they start talking and within the first thing that they say, you’re like, “Ooh, that reminds me of this thing.” Right?

And so that’s—you’re just trying to work out how to form your next spiel while they’re talking.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: And it’s a little bit exhausting, but like, if you aren’t doing that and if you are actively listening to what someone else is saying, it just feels like a different conversation. Doesn’t it?

Breallyn: Well, you can really understand nuances in what they’re saying that you would be skipping over if you are focused on something else. It leads you to your response.

Lyndon: Yeah. But it leads you—like you don’t miss things. And you end up with questions when they finish talking rather than just making statements. That’s right. It’s a little bit like that.

Breallyn: Yeah. And asking those questions rather than going, “I wonder what they mean by that, but I’m too busy thinking about what my response is” to actually ask them and then maybe finding out information you didn’t know existed.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. I’m guilty of that because I often am just trying to think of something funny. Not really—that if someone is having a conversation, then someone says something and it reminds you of something funny that happened.

That’s kind of what happens because if something was funny, they want to hear about it, which isn’t always the case because it’s subjective, isn’t it?

Breallyn: It’s true.

Lyndon: But it is interesting though that you are like—you can’t help but absorb more of the world and then that does lead to creative thinking.

Breallyn: Yeah. Absolutely. Really. And gets you out of the kind of narrow channel of—you know, you might have had an idea and you’re trying to pursue this thing and make this particular piece of writing, piece of art, whatever.

You can get quite stuck in that trough and trying to form it and force it into how you think it should be or how you kind of envisaged it in that moment of inspiration.

Whereas if you have that more open and—generous is a good word for it. You know, that curious spirit, just seeing what else is out there, being interested, like genuinely interested in others and how they’re doing and what they’re doing, and how they’re doing it, and you know, how could you help or encourage.

It’s all of those interactions that can lead to like additional little ideas or all sorts of little threads connecting that can go into your piece and your thing that you might not have at all thought about. You would never have come upon it if you were just stuck in your channel of thinking.

The Problem with the “Elevator Pitch” Mentality

Lyndon: Yeah. Maybe that’s why like networking events and that just feel so awkward, is because everyone’s like got their elevator pitches prepared.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And it’s everyone just sort of saying what they’re doing and trying to work out where their “in” is.

Breallyn: Yep. That’s right, going, “I need two new clients,” or “I wanna find a such-and-such for my—I need a book cover designer, so let me weed out all the other ones and find the one I’m after.” Like, yeah, can be tricky.

Lyndon: Well, I was in a position the other week just backstage with a bunch of musicians. First time I’d met them from different bands and whatnot. And I was probably asked something pretty simple like, “What do you do?”

Or, I can’t even remember now, but I felt so unprepared. I was like, I don’t know what to say. Like, well, I need my elevator pitch and I had nothing.

Uh, and I felt like I was just there going, “Oh yeah, bit of this, bit of that. I had porridge this morning. Do you like oats?” You know, like I didn’t say any of that, but that’s what it felt like.

The end of it, I was like, I really—

Breallyn: You gotta work on that piece.

Lyndon: I really did not make the most of that very organic, natural, normal situation that wasn’t a networking session.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s it. Did you even mention our podcast?

Lyndon: I don’t know. Probably not.

Breallyn: Why? As in—I should mention it like, “Oh, I make a podcast, you should listen.” Or, who knows? You could have had a guest out of those moments.

Lyndon: I’m just not in—like, this is a thing I probably need to be, because I know that the artists that are pursuing that music career as a songwriter, as a performer, or what have you, they’ve got a whole lot of other strings to their bow.

You know, it’s not just about that. Like they know that when I’m playing or when I’m at this festival, it’s an opportunity for—I’m gonna be meeting not just other artists, but I’m gonna be meeting their managers, I’m gonna be meeting promoters.

I need to—you sort of gotta be on your game beyond the stage itself.

Breallyn: And what are you saying? You were not on your game?

Lyndon: Well, no. I mean, I was there as a session player, basically just enjoying being out, playing, and then just sitting around a dinner table basically with other people coming in and out, some people sitting down.

And I wasn’t thinking about that. “Oh, this could be an opportunity to really…” I think my head thought about “I need to, when I’m on stage, I need to make sure that I play and perform.”

Breallyn: Show your capabilities there.

Lyndon: Yeah. That my—I know what I’m doing. I’m a music… like I thought about that much of it. Like, I want to do these songs justice and I want to do the right thing by the artist.

But yeah, it was just sort of weird to… like I would’ve thought that if someone goes, “Hey, so how do you know so-and-so?” that I could at least speak English? Do you know what I mean? I was like, oh my gosh.

Breallyn: Did—

Lyndon: But anyway.

Breallyn: Maybe say, “Please speak to my interpreter.” Yeah. I think that you probably have always chronically undersold yourself or not—

Lyndon: Oh, totally.

Breallyn: Not just like undersold yourself, but being—yeah, like not seeing how much you have to offer there in that situation.

Lyndon: Well, probably not being very generous with my reply, was I?

Breallyn: Yeah, well, like maybe that’s—but that’s the… thinking about it as generosity and curiosity shifts it from the networking mindset or the pitching mindset.

Like obviously it’s quite nice to have a little bit of a pitch worked out or just to, “Hey, I’m a producer, I work at Morning Phase studio, and I do this, I do that, whatever.” So you’re not sort of fumbling for those words. Like it’s nice to have a little thing worked out prior.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: But see then that allows you then to see what comes of those conversations.

Lyndon: It’s weird.

Breallyn: What questions can you then ask and what threads and things?

Lyndon: Yeah, I’ll ask the questions of them, but in any circles, you know, people sort of go, “You know, do you have a good long weekend?”

And I’ll just be like—like genuinely I will say, “I think so. I can’t remember like actually what I did.” So my default position is “no information.” I don’t know.

So, um, yeah, I’ll have to. You know what? I need little palm cards or something. So someone asks me, “So how do you know so-and-so?” and I can just pull out a card and go, “Hi, my name is Lyndon. I’m in my mid to late thirties.”

How about this? This is kind of partly what we just fell on then: generosity with your own work. But this is really about hoarding your ideas. I mean, we sort of touched on this before.

I think maybe I weirdly jumped ahead, but many people hoard their ideas in fear that they’ll be stolen.

Breallyn: Yeah. Which—

Lyndon: We did sort of touch on. Or judged.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep, that’s true.

Collaboration and Artistic Maturity

Lyndon: But, you know, sharing work early and openly actually invites collaboration and feedback and unexpected directions that on your own you might not have reached.

Breallyn: True.

Lyndon: And it’s something that, here in the studio, if I’m working with someone, within reason, I would prefer they brought their songs to me as early as possible.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah. You know, and we can together collaborate on how we’re gonna approach them and start that curiosity and that discovery together. I think it’s really helpful. It’s helpful for them as much as it is for me.

And so… but it takes—I’m gonna call it bravery. It’s not, but it’s a certain amount of confidence and courage and artistic maturity, I think. To be able to bring something and know that what you’re bringing is enough to then seed the rest of the song.

Breallyn: And it does take some wisdom as well of who you share that with.

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s right.

Breallyn: In what context? Because you’re gonna get lots of people going, “Well, what are you working on? What are you doing?” You’re not gonna be inviting everyone into that process, you know?

Lyndon: Not your family or friends.

Breallyn: Yeah. You get the old, “You know what you ought to do is you ought to do this.”

Lyndon: It’s—yeah. Your family and friends are rarely the ones that actually understand the process or anything like that. They support you as a human being.

Breallyn: Yeah. And—

Lyndon: But the art side, I mean it’s a mystery to most people.

Breallyn: Yeah. So it was interesting and I don’t know if you’re gonna come back to this, but the phraseology of the quote in the first instance—”the confidence and energy”—I wanted to focus on that.

And confidence was the one that stuck out to me. Like to have a confident life and have creativity as part of that.

What gives you confidence, but going into life more confidently because of the creativity that you generate. Like that’s very interesting because we often have this picture of artists as neurotic. You know, little squirrels hiding away in their rooms trying to do their things.

Lyndon: Well, you could be confidently neurotic.

Breallyn: But—

Lyndon: Yeah, that is true. See, because I think what’s attractive—because I was thinking what attracts me and what attracts people generally to artistic people. And one of the things is confidence.

But I think it is confidence in this context of generosity. Because confidence can also be… you know, if clothed on a different person can look quite ugly.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So I’m not sure whether I’ve actually—because I did actually make notes, I’m not sure if I’ve actually got anything on that to be honest. I’m not confident I have anything on confidence.

But I know for sure it was swirling around in my head because I think what it is is that—and we might get to this in a moment—but I think the confident artist, regardless even of what… okay, so let’s just say, let’s acknowledge that the final work from an artist is subjective, right?

What they do, you may not like it, but the confident, neurotic, even artist, I think what they are displaying is this generous outlook of abundance. And so that’s attractive.

Breallyn: Mm.

Lyndon: I think that’s what it is. That’s attractive. It sort of goes hand in hand with that curiosity and the possibilities.

And when you’re around people like that—and it doesn’t matter whether they’re artistic people or business people—it’s attractive. And it definitely happens, obviously, in the business world.

You get that abundance mentality and the possibilities of like, “You know, all you’ve gotta do is this, this, and this, and by the time you’re ready to retire, you’ll have three properties and a million dollars in super,” and it’s like—that is attractive.

So I think that happens anywhere anyway.

Generosity vs. Gain: A Different Way of Showing Up

Breallyn: Yeah, that—I mean, I get what you mean about the confidence and like—it’s an outlook appearance of walking through the world like you own it kind of thing. Or like you—

Lyndon: Well, that’s unattractive.

Breallyn: You are there. Yeah. No, that’s unattractive. Well, that’s the image that’s coming to my mind when I think of it on that scale because it’s like—that’s the confidence of gain, of like, “What can I gain? What can I get for myself?”

Whereas I feel like this generosity and the confidence that that can embody is more of “What can I give and what can I share and what can I learn?” It’s a different kind of showing up in the world, I think.

Lyndon: Yeah. But I think that’s just how you are seeing the phrasing.

Breallyn: That’s—yeah, it is.

Lyndon: That’s all. And that’s also based on little mental images.

Breallyn: People.

Lyndon: Well, no, it’s also based on experiences that you’ve had that have been unsavory as well. But both are true.

But I sort of picture it more like someone who’s, you know, like a watercolor painter or a… they’re a painter. Who cares what medium they work in, right? I was just trying to describe what I was exactly seeing.

Okay, so they’re on—they’ve got a canvas, right? It’s about 20 inches by… so when they’re walking down the beach, you know, they’re noticing so much stuff.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So in the end they’ve—I can just look at the painting they’ve done and it’s of a shell and I go, “Big deal. It’s a shell.”

But the fact that they took the time to notice all the detail in it and the colors and the shadows, that’s where I can start to appreciate what they’ve done is because I may have just walked right past that shell.

Breallyn: Mm-hmm.

Lyndon: But had I noticed it, guess what? My anxiety may have dropped a bit. So I sort of—how can I explain that better? I wish I knew medical terms. What’s serotonin? Is that good or bad?

Breallyn: That’s quite a good one. That’s what you want. You want dopamine, you want s—serotonin is the more longer lasting feel-good chemicals.

Lyndon: So it’s like menthol.

Breallyn: I don’t know that it’s like menthol. It’s serotonin. Dopamine’s more the short-acting fast hit, like you start scrolling, you get the hit of dopamine, you know?

Lyndon: Right.

Breallyn: Whereas serotonin is more like you’ve got some good meditation and physical activity practices that lead to overall wellbeing.

Lyndon: And what about cortisol?

Breallyn: That’s—we don’t want that one.

Lyndon: Right? Had I noticed the shell and picked it up and went, “Oh,” my cortisol would’ve dropped.

Breallyn: Yeah. And yeah, your serotonin would’ve—

Lyndon: Yeah. I’ve taken some deep breaths and that. So I think—I sort of think if someone like that person as an artist is walking around, able to see new things, discover new things, just see the detail and stuff, it’s like they’re seeing the abundance of life. Do you get what I mean? That’s kind of…

Breallyn: That’s true. Yeah.

Lyndon: But good on them.

Breallyn: Yeah, I think that that is a really good point is finding that inspiration in different things. There’s a generosity in that. There’s a welcoming of the inspiration from all sorts of places.

I’m thinking of an artist and I wish I could remember his name. He would take photos from his teenage years, like just shots that him and his mates had taken, like if they were out at a party or at the skate park or whatever.

And for whatever reason there was just this hoard of just snapshots that he had.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: And he would paint them from the photo, but in such rich, gorgeous black pastel, but also bright colors. Like the paint became this generous format to sort of imbibe these images with love, you know?

And it was just images of kids doing stupid stuff half the time, drinking or messing around with their friends. Mm-hmm. Not particularly great moments or proud moments or whatever.

But what he was able to bring to those images and show through his paint—you know, a moment that in a photo, something captured that everyone else would look past—that love that he was able to bring to it showed it in a completely different light.

So, yeah, I think visual artists are so good like that in what they show to us—how the world can look so different if you take that moment, take some time and look at it and see it in a different way and notice that bowl of fruit, you know?

Yeah. Whatever it is. And the richness that comes with, yeah, I don’t know, something grown. They’re amazing like that. So, yeah, that generosity of outlook is a good point.

The Stillness of Urban Art

Lyndon: I think I’ve just realized why I like Jeffrey Smart paintings.

Breallyn: Oh yeah. He’s one of your favorite artists, I think.

Lyndon: Well, yeah, and I think—I mean, a lot of his work, at least his well-known ones, are of quite urban areas. Sometimes industrial kind of things. Or it could just be a road. But it’s the stillness in them.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know, like in areas that are generally quite chaotic or you’d sort of think about as being full of motion. And it’s like there’s a stillness in them. Mm.

But in the pretend painting example before of the shell—yeah, you could just look at it and go, “It’s a shell. And so what? I could have taken a photo of it.”

But I think, yeah, it’s like what you’re saying. It’s the fact that they’ve done that. It is a reminder to us to maybe take the time to be a little more observant or to notice what’s around us.

Breallyn: Yeah, I’m showing so many things like that. I’m now imagining the shell painting. There is no shell painting, but how soft the colors can be and how it’s something that is bone-hard and yet also feels fragile.

And feels like it’s been there for a thousand years, but it’s also about to crumble under someone’s foot. I don’t know. There’s just so many things that that one image can show.

And you know, we do—we miss so much of what goes speeding by in life, and art is a way of grabbing it and bringing it to our attention in such unique ways.

Scarcity vs. Abundance Thinking

Lyndon: Let’s talk about generosity as a mindset, because in a way that’s what we have been touching on. And it counters one of creativity’s biggest enemies. Do you know what that is?

Breallyn: Creativity… I don’t know. Like—

Lyndon: It’s not the Victorian government, if you can believe that.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Okay. It’s a big one.

Breallyn: I don’t know. Fear or—

Lyndon: No, not fear. Ready?

Breallyn: Yeah. Go.

Lyndon: Scarcity thinking.

Breallyn: Oh yeah.

Lyndon: The belief that there are only so many good ideas, so much recognition or so much space for creative work makes people timid and derivative.

Breallyn: Mm, yeah. That’s so true.

Lyndon: It’s true. We’re all guilty of it. Yeah. In those, especially in times where we’re like, “Ugh, something’s not quite happening,” or “Is this a good idea or not?”

Breallyn: And it’s so—

Lyndon: Interesting. And people tell you it as well. “Yeah, all the good songs have been written.” It’s like, really? I just heard a new one yesterday that’s awesome.

Breallyn: Yeah. And you know what? The opposite is true: there is no end to the ideas and what can be formed from them.

I was recently—I attended a book launch of Amie Kaufman’s new book, Red Star Rebels. And one of the points that she was making—it was a discussion that she was having with Lily Wilkinson.

One of the points that they were making is: “Don’t invent a new book.” Like, don’t—you don’t have to try to write something that’s never been written before.

There’s so many of the stories are things that have existed before; you’re gonna do a completely different take on it. You’re gonna do something different. And readers wanna see what that is.

And they want—they love the familiar, but they love the nuances that you bring. And Amie Kaufman was making the point that one of the books that she had written with Jay Kristoff, their pitch of it was “The Titanic, but in space.”

You’ve got this idea of a big craft, two young people on it who fall in love, but this time it’s in space.

Lyndon: And at the end one goes, “Sorry, there’s no room on this door for you as well.”

Breallyn: I actually haven’t read that book, so I don’t know what happens at the end. But you know, it’s not reinventing the wheel, it’s taking it and just making something new with it.

So there’s so many ideas, there’s so much that can be done and not everything has to be completely brand new. We all interlock and we all can take the old fairytales and make something new with them.

Lyndon: Yeah. So we were talking about abundance before. A generous outlook assumes abundance and that creating something doesn’t diminish others, and that helping others create doesn’t diminish you.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I feel like that is—it’s a maturity thing and as in, it’s not something that should come with age. It’s just… like someone needs to tell that to you early.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know what I mean? Because it is a mindset thing that unless someone is aware of it… yeah. Like they just might not be that generous towards other people because they’re trying to hold onto their own thing.

They don’t want to accidentally give an opportunity to someone else that could have been theirs. It’s not how it works. It’s not even how it works with the pros.

Recap: Generosity as an Energy

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: You know.

Breallyn: And even in the greater, you know, like the business world or whatever, there’s often that idea that, yeah, there’s one car dealer in town and if another one comes, they’re gonna take off the business.

Well, they’re actually not. They’re gonna have two car lots next to each other. You’re gonna draw more people in to look at all the cars because people want a car.

Lyndon: They potentially are owned by the same company.

Breallyn: Well, true. That plays out too as well. But yeah, you know, districts that have got lots of great restaurants, not just one great restaurant—they just attract a vibe.

And yeah, the same is true with creative industries and communities where that feeding off one another, encouraging each other, collaborating—it becomes bigger than the sum of its parts. Mm-hmm. You know, and we can be a part of that thing.

Lyndon: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I like that one. I like that one a lot. So let’s just go over what we’ve done. We’ve talked about generosity of spirit. Mm-hmm. I’m doing a recap.

Breallyn: Good on you. This is a very formal part of the show.

Lyndon: I know. Generosity with your own work. Generosity as a mindset. Are there any shortcuts here or we have to be generous? Do we?

Fair enough. Um, generous towards yourself.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Have I said this already about being—generosity with your own work? I said before with your work. Yeah. Yep. But generosity towards yourself is different.

That’s giving yourself permission to experiment, to fail and try again, but without that harsh self-judgment. And it’s often what separates people who act on creative impulses from those who suppress them.

Breallyn: Oh yeah.

Lyndon: And that is an interesting point because—I’ll tell you what I like about collaboration is you have even like an unspoken agreement with the other person that you can act on your creative impulses.

Whereas when I’m in most other situations, it’s tutted, it’s frowned upon. It’s not socially acceptable. I can’t—you know, you can’t just say that thing or do that thing because it looked awkward and made someone feel uncomfortable or whatever.

You know, it’s like those—you literally do have to suppress your creative impulses. And we are also saying that creativity isn’t about art; it’s an energy and a confidence that is in all of your life. It helps to live an abundant life.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So yeah, so you do get that suppressed from all kinds of places that it can really… you know. It really sort of takes the… I don’t know.

It takes the… I was gonna say, “the wind out of your tires.” That’s not right. It takes the wind out from beneath your wings and you plummet to the earth and die.

It takes the air outta your tires and you crash the car and die. Wow. It’s pretty somber.

Breallyn: But that—

Lyndon: But that generosity towards yourself and giving yourself that permission to just try things and be creative and not have to suppress it.

It’s like, yeah. That’s what happens in a collaborative environment more because you’re out of your own head.

Breallyn: Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

Lyndon: So I think that’s… because it sounds—some of these things, it’s a bit like when you were talking last week about breathing, you know, you can kind of go, “Uh, breathing, we all breathe.”

It’s a bit like that. You know, “Really, I’ve gotta be grateful and generous and that’s somehow the secret?”

Breallyn: I’ve gotta eat well and exercise.

Lyndon: I’ve gotta listen to people when they tell me their stories. I’ve gotta take an interest and ask questions. That’s what life is about, really.

Curiosity and Receptivity

Lyndon: So yeah, this whole thing’s been an interesting discovery for me because it literally came from Ben Rennie’s statement: “Creativity is not art.”

And it’s led me on this path of generosity—that is from what he said as well. Yeah. Showing up. And I think we knew it all along, you know, that it’s human. It’s fundamentally human.

Breallyn: Yeah. It is.

Lyndon: So it’s been showing up with a particular mindset of generosity. Yeah. And curiosity.

Breallyn: Which may have been more—

Lyndon: Good on him and his esophagi.

Breallyn: I was gonna say, is he a fun guy?

Lyndon: No, he’s an esopha-guy.

Breallyn: As your focus just run out.

Lyndon: Yeah. My focus is so run out.

Breallyn: Okay. Well I think that’s time to wrap the show up right there.

Lyndon: There’s another quote from him to end, if we wanna wrap it up. Do you wanna wrap it up on another—

Breallyn: Yeah, I think that’s a good place to finish up.

Lyndon: Another Rennie classic.

Breallyn: Okay, go for it, Mr. Esopha-guy.

Lyndon: “Curiosity asks the questions. Generosity keeps you receptive enough to hear the answers.”

Breallyn: Oh yeah.

Lyndon: See, this is why he’s… oh, he’s philosophical, isn’t he? This is why he gets hired.

Breallyn: Yeah. Absolutely.

Lyndon: Yeah. He’s a thinker.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So yeah, his book is called Lessons in Creativity: Stories and Strategies to Cultivate Your Creative Confidence. Yeah. Follow him on Instagram. You might agree with some of the stuff he says, and you may not.

Breallyn: I have 15 books at least that I’ve purchased and have been working my way through them, but before I can get to the end of the pile, I somehow managed to get a few more. But perhaps I might just have to add that one to the stack.

Lyndon: Maybe. We will see you next week.

Breallyn: Yeah. Have a good one.

Lyndon: Bye.

Breallyn: Bye.

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