Aug 04, 2026 · Episode 78
56 Min, 54 Sec 

Summary

Ever feel like the voice in your head answering questions about your creative life is an untrustworthy narrator? This week on Pain In The Arts, we set out to tackle two deceptively simple questions: what’s one thing you can do today to move your career forward, and what’s one thing you can do to advance your art practice?

Drawing on our 30 years of experience across different creative fields, we sit down to unpack how old scripts, inherited beliefs, and outdated data keep us stuck in our own work. We discuss actor Sam Neill’s reframing technique for separating your self-worth from your profession, why saying ‘no’ builds a career path just as much as saying ‘yes’, and the constant battle to protect your creative time.

(Featuring a one-armed neighbour, a near-disastrous winery set, and a lesson on Main Character Energy)

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Transcript

Lyndon: Welcome to Pain In The Arts, where the pursuit of meaningful art meets the unpredictable demands of real life, and where you find out the topic at the same time one of us does.

Breallyn: That’s right. I’m Breallyn.

Lyndon: And I’m not.

Breallyn: That’s it. You’ll never know who’s also in the studio with me today. Thanks for joining us.

Lyndon: We were talking just before we started recording about my gig on the weekend. And it was at a winery that I’m playing at fairly regularly. Beautiful views. Amazing. Yeah. One of those days too where it was cold, but if the sun didn’t go behind the cloud, you could almost mistake it for one of those beautiful autumn days.

Breallyn: Yeah. It wasn’t too cold.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah.

It was actually pretty good. And also, the atmosphere at the time, and just the… It was, there were clouds around, just perfect for photos and perfect for contrast in the landscape too. When you see the different… I love seeing the hills and the mountains, and you get that… when that’s high contrast, yeah, you get a real sense of depth between the different land masses or mountains and things. It’s really nice.

Breallyn: Good sense of space there and —

Lyndon: Nothing on the vines…

Your place in —

Breallyn: — it.

Lyndon: Yeah, nothing on the vines though.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Just sticks.

Breallyn: Sticks at this time of year.

Lyndon: Yeah.

I play there. I don’t know anything about vineyarding. Pretty sure that’s what it’s called.

Goats and Gaggles

Lyndon: They got a couple of goats there too, and I was watching the goats — I was on a break — and I was watching the goats, and just seeing how good they were at mowing the lawn.

Breallyn: Oh, I’ve thought about it.

Lyndon: Yeah, I know. And not great. They weren’t —

Breallyn: They’re a bit patchy, but they look cute when they’re doing it…

Lyndon: They weren’t systematic. There’s only two of them, they really needed to work as a team, and they’re just doing their own thing, and they just want… it’s like, you really do need a herd —

Breallyn: They —

Lyndon: Just a gaggle of goats. What’s the collective noun for goats?

Breallyn: It’s a herd, right? Herds tend to stick together.

Lyndon: Yeah. I don’t know. I —

Breallyn: I think they demolish —

Lyndon: They’re goat… —

Breallyn: Everything in their path…

Lyndon: They’re goat herders, aren’t they? Oh —

Breallyn: That’s true.

Lyndon: There was a gaggle — there was a —

Breallyn: A giggle of geese…

Lyndon: Yeah. A gaggle of geese, that’s not what we’re speaking about.

Onstage Sickness Scare

Lyndon: Sometimes when you’re playing, people are responding and whatnot, you feel like you owe ’em a little bit.

Like, and it just, within, literally within a song I think, I could feel all the blood drain from my face.

I was getting lightheaded and all I could think of was, “I’ve gotta get to the toilet.” Yeah. I just… beyond that too, I literally couldn’t hold my notes. It was like I didn’t have the air to sing properly.

Breallyn: Oh, gosh. It was —

Lyndon: So bad, and I had all eyes on me as well.

Breallyn: Were they just watching ’cause they’d been enjoying the set, or were they suddenly, “Why has this guy gone white?” No.

Lyndon: No, this was the thing, and normally in these situations too, I’m not too worried about finishing strictly on time. If I’ve got —

Breallyn: Yeah —

Lyndon: People that are appreciative, I’ll… and they want me to do another song, I’ll do another song. Like, you know what I mean? I don’t wanna be that guy, goes, “Oh.”

Breallyn: My — Set’s over. See ya.

Lyndon: Yeah. Like these, like comedians — some of the comedians say, “That’s my time.” Yeah. When they’ve got a strict three-minute time limit on the — yeah — on those TV shows. No, they’d been really vocal, like clapping, and often by the third set a lot of things are winding down a bit.

Whereas it seemed like these people were just hanging around until I’d finished. So I really had that sense of, once I stop playing, they’re gonna leave.

At the end of songs I was getting people calling out, “Bravo.” Honestly. And I was like — yeah — “Wow, that’s… I haven’t had anyone say bravo.” And so that came from a couple of people at one particular table, and yeah. Anyway, all this… So it was good, but yeah, I had to cut what was gonna be my second last song. I had to cut it by not doing a repeat of the chorus and I just said, “Thanks. See you next time,” put my guitar down, and walked as fast as I could without looking like I was running to the loo.

Breallyn: That could’ve gone so much worse. I —

Lyndon: I know.

Honestly, I had visions — I don’t really wanna say this on the podcast — but during that song I was like, “I’m either gonna pass out or I’m gonna vomit in front of them.” And it was like, I thought either of those are real possibilities.

Breallyn: So you did well to get to the end of the song, to some sort of end of the song. Yeah. It was — yeah — it was an early exit. And yeah, I just, I was just out of there and I don’t… I wasn’t back for 25 minutes or something. Yeah. But unfortunately, when I opened the door, once I thought, I’m safe now — this is after nearly falling asleep on the toilet.

Lyndon: I finally was like, “I think I’m gonna be all right to pack up my gear and do the one-hour drive home. I think I’m gonna be okay.” And I open up the door and one of the women that had been earnestly listening to me for that set had been out there waiting to come in. Oh, no. And I felt like saying, “It’s gonna need a — and you don’t go in, it’s —”

Breallyn: — gonna —

Lyndon: “— need another flush.” Oh, no. But I was just like, “Oh, I can’t believe it,” I just didn’t expect anyone to be out there. So I don’t know how long she was out there for, but she would’ve had a — she would’ve had a fourth set if she was out there for too long. Yeah, so that was bad. So yeah, never a dull moment.

But nice audience.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So it was, yeah, really great.

Bravo Table and Alzheimer’s Moment

Lyndon: Oh, this is actually the point of my story, if I had one.

Breallyn: Okay.

Lyndon: Is that table where the bravo was coming from — one of the women came to me once I was back and was packing up my gear.

I won’t say everything that she said, which was all very nice. But she did say, “Look, it was my mum’s 70th birthday.” She is — or was — a musician. She’s alive, but she had Alzheimer’s.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: She said, “A lot of the songs you were playing she knew, and it brought back a lot of memories for her.” And so they were just —

Breallyn: That’s amazing, yeah…

Lyndon: Really appreciative of — so they’d been sitting up in the restaurant earlier in the day, and then they came down to sit outside near where I was playing so that they could continue their celebrating, but be closer to the music.

So yeah, this experience of me pretty much being the sickest I can ever remember being on stage — just came upon me so fast — having to deal with it, going, packing up my gear, and then being told how much the music meant. You know — yeah — it was like, more than just —

Breallyn: Yeah —

Lyndon: More than just people listening and enjoying a wine and — yeah — and a cheese platter or whatever. And yeah. And I said, “Look, really appreciate you telling me that.” I didn’t tell her why, but it’s like that’s a real… But it’s great to know that.

Breallyn: Oh, yeah…

Lyndon: And the bravos suddenly made sense too —

Breallyn: Yeah —

Lyndon: Because it was probably appropriate for the age of some of the people that were at the table.

Breallyn: Yeah.

That’s really special, like that the music cut through and actually — you know — allowed that lady to access memory that she hadn’t been in touch with or… Yeah.

Lyndon: My set list isn’t massively comprehensive, to be honest. It’s not like a lot of these guys that have been doing covers their whole life. But I do have songs from the ’60s, the ’70s, the ’80s, the ’90s, 2000s.

Breallyn: All the best decades.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Screw you, ’50s and ’40s. I’d love to do a big band thing, but it’s —

Breallyn: How hard as a solo act —

Lyndon: No, I just, I just haven’t pulled my finger out, have I? And I haven’t managed to get around to learning anything since Ed Sheeran hit the scene. So it’s probably nothing the last 15… Anyway, so I think this woman — I don’t know her name — I think she actually performed some of the songs that I was doing.

Breallyn: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah. That’d be cool.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Oh, nice.

Lyndon: Anyway, there’s my story. Oh, it’s my story and I’m sticking to it…

Breallyn: Mixed review of Sunday’s performance. You were just thinking before — maybe it was something you ate on that day, because none of us were sick from something that we’d had here the day before or anything.

But yeah.

Lyndon: That’s why I can’t name the winery.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I don’t think it was their food. Because I had something very normal that everyone else would’ve been eating as well. And I was the only one that semi-ran to the outdoor loo, anyway.

Lyndon: She’s one of the founding patrons —

Breallyn: Wow…

Lyndon: Of Pain in the Arts. Keeping the lights on here.

Breallyn: Yes.

Lyndon: Which that one is flickering, so maybe Mel —

Breallyn: Keep subscribing, Mel.

Lyndon: Maybe Mel, as soon as we get those annual subscriptions up, or send us over a new smart light bulb for that — it’s been changing colours while I’ve been speaking. It’s been very disconcerting, like a really low-budget shite disco.

All right. That’s enough about Patreon. Go join, support the show, and thanks Mel —

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: In Tassie too. Must be cold.

Breallyn: She needs her own lights and heaters on.

Lyndon: That’s all we’ve got time for. Look, okay, let’s get on to the actual topic.

Untrustworthy Narrator Talk

Lyndon: Okay, Brea, do you ever feel like you’re the untrustworthy narrator? I feel this could in itself be the whole episode. Do you know what I mean?

Breallyn: I do, because being a writer — you’re narrating, especially from a first person point of view in a novel — you have to make that decision early on. Is your narrator a trustworthy narrator or an untrustworthy one? And oh boy, some of the untrustworthy narrators are so intriguing.

But yeah, it’s very interesting. I’m actually reading a novel at the moment. I think it’s called Everyone In This Bank Is A Thief.

I’m just gonna quickly look up —

Lyndon: I don’t have time for you to look stuff up.

Breallyn: So it’s a book by Benjamin Stevenson, who’s an Australian writer. And I think his first novel — I might get the name slightly wrong — but I think it’s called Everyone In My Family Is A Murderer, or something like that, or Is A Killer.

And so all of his books are “Everyone Is A Such-And-Such.” Everyone On This Train Is A Suspect is another one of his.

Lyndon: Oh, okay.

Breallyn: And yeah, so his narrator is a trustworthy narrator who lets you always know, “I’m a very trustworthy narrator,” because this narrator was a writer about the golden age of detective fiction.

Thinking Agatha Christie, that kind of era where —

Lyndon: So he’s really brought the narrator in as a character.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So do they call himself the narrator?

Breallyn: This one does. The fourth wall is very much broken down.

Lyndon: Oh.

Breallyn: And so in detective fiction there’s kind of these golden rules where you’ve gotta show your audience the clues, and it can’t be things like “this was all a dream” or “the butler did it.” Like some of these tropes are considered unfair with the detective fiction rules. So yeah, this particular narrator is very clear on — all the clues will be there for you as a reader to see, and he even points them out going, “Hey, see that connection there? That’s gonna come in later.” So even when you think, “Ooh, I’ve got one of those clues” —

Lyndon: Yeah…

Breallyn: He disarms you by saying, “Yes, you got it. Well done.”

Lyndon: Is it like, is it middle-aged fiction, or?

Breallyn: No, just — not middle-aged, not middle school. Middle-aged.

Lyndon: Middle-aged. If it’s middle-aged, it’s definitely not for me.

Breallyn: Yeah, so I do love, I love both — like a narrator that you can trust and one that you know is lying to you.

Lyndon: Yeah, it’s amazing how, listening to bands and to singers, how you just believe that everything that they’re singing about is about them or from their perspective, and quite often it’s not at all.

Breallyn: Gee, I remember being so perplexed by that. Like when I was — I don’t know — 10, listening to Belinda Carlisle.

Lyndon: Going — somewhere in heart I was always... That’s my memory of Belinda Carlisle.

Breallyn: Yeah, she had a little tremor in her voice, yeah.

Lyndon: It’s a warble, isn’t it? Fair enough.

Breallyn: But I was like, “Has this woman been widowed, and had many love affairs, and done this, that, and the other in her life, that now she’s writing about it?” And yeah, I actually have no idea about any of those things, but I always thought — as a kid — every song was… Like, it wasn’t — I never heard it as a fiction, I always heard it as the truth, like a true story of that singer.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah. That’s right. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess we did a lot more of that when you’re younger. And it’s easier to believe that too, because you’re really connecting with the person you’re seeing and who’s singing it to you. You don’t ever think that — initially you don’t — unless it’s really obvious.

Remember the song My Name Is Luka?

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: “I live on the second floor.” I don’t think we ever thought that was about her. It was always that she was —

Breallyn: She was this —

Lyndon: Child character… she was a witness —

Breallyn: Yeah, yeah, to it. Yeah.

Lyndon: Oh, you thought she was the child?

Breallyn: No, I thought it was like, the character was a child, and I yeah, I did hear that as a —

Lyndon: Although she does —

Breallyn: Although I didn’t really —

Lyndon: She does say it in the song, “I live next door to you.”

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: “I guess you’ve probably seen me before.”

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: “If you hear something late…” Yeah, I guess maybe it is explained in it. It’s just not always explained in songs. So yeah. But a lot of the time they are being the untrustworthy narrator.

Anyway. Yeah. So do you ever feel like you’re the untrustworthy narrator? As in, how much faith can you put in what you’re telling yourself?

Breallyn: Oh.

Lyndon: Is this a conundrum?

Breallyn: Yeah, it is, ’cause I don’t know — I feel like I always tie myself in knots about this very thing, going, “Am I lying to myself about different things? Or what is the truth of this matter?” Because, like, everyone always sees themselves as the hero of their own story. You don’t see yourself as the monster of your story.

Lyndon: Well —

Breallyn: But you might be the monster of somebody else’s.

Lyndon: Could you just be the innocent bystander of your own story? Do you have to be the hero —

Breallyn: No —

Lyndon: Or the monster?

Breallyn: I’m pretty sure everyone’s their own protagonist.

Main Character Energy

Breallyn: And this is — there’s a new sort of saying around, “I’ve got main character energy.”

Lyndon: Oh my gosh.

Breallyn: Is there? Yeah.

Lyndon: Can you stop telling me all these things that are going around? ‘Cause —

Breallyn: And like, people literally think that if they’re walking around, they’re the main character in that scene. Like, go walking around in the city, and they’ve got main character energy, but other people are more like the supporting cast. And they’ll — oh, okay — they’ll think this about their life.

Lyndon: I sorta like that though. I like that as a — ’cause it is… I see what you mean. Like, if someone’s actually gonna say that about themselves, that’s one thing, but if you were to walk around the city instead of feeling like you’re insignificant, to kinda go, “Ooh, I’m the main character here” — just think it to yourself — that would be kinda cool.

Breallyn: Yeah. For some people, kinda cool, like to elevate yourself to go, “I am the main character in my own story. I’m the protagonist. The actions that I take will set into motion a whole series of events.” “So I’ve gotta be proactive, and I’ve gotta take action rather than just wait for things to happen to me,” ’cause no main character ever does that, right?

But I think — that’s what — where the problem happens is when you literally expect your family and friends to all be playing second fiddle to you ’cause you’re the main character, and their stories really don’t matter that much.

You don’t have to be accountable to them. You’re the main character.

Lyndon: I remember as a primary school kid, running around Gardiners Creek pretending I was like a commando, and I had my — pretend — it was a replica AK-47. No it wasn’t, it was a Tommy gun. I wished it was an AK-47. ‘Cause I had some obsession with the Vietnam War. I don’t know why. No reason to. And so I had a Tommy gun. It’s a Tommy gun — I can’t do that voice. But yeah, I had — it looked, to me it looked like a real gun.

And yeah, so I was definitely — I definitely had main character energy — pretending I was Rambo, and then running across into the — oh, what was that place called? It was like the — not the Powder Works, that would’ve been dangerous — it was like Brickworks, I think, where they made bricks or something.

Breallyn: Wow. That’s probably equally dangerous.

Lyndon: No, it’s no longer there. Yeah, and just pretend that they were the enemy, and I was like Chuck Norris.

Breallyn: You were in there behind enemy lines. Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah, yeah. So yeah. That was good times. Yeah. Just me.

Breallyn: You and your main character energy.

Lyndon: And I had no backup and no mates. Had my trusty dog, Samba. Yeah.

Ozark Insights

Lyndon: We were watching Ozark, and I’m not gonna spoil this for anyone that is also like us and about four or five years behind.

I never wanted to watch it ’cause I thought, “I know I’ll probably enjoy it,” and it’s 54 episodes in my life I’ll never get back. You know what the other thing was, actually? When it came out, I think it was about the time I had my nervous breakdown. And I didn’t — this is the truth — I saw some scenes from Ozark in a trailer, and I was like, “I don’t think I can handle it.”

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Like just seeing that.

Breallyn: Any —

Lyndon: So it’s good to know I’m back to —

Breallyn: Yeah, back to —

Lyndon: Full health, and I can watch violence on TV again. Bravo.

Breallyn: I’m gonna say, I kinda miss your Peter Rabbit era.

Lyndon: Oh. Hey, if they bring out a Peter Rabbit the Third, I’m right back there. But there was a scene in it where the mother is talking to her children — she’s just been telling some truths about a situation — and then she goes on to say why she behaved in a certain way.

And then she stops herself and she goes, “Actually, that’s not true.”

Breallyn: Actually, even that is bullshit. It —

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Even that.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. She goes, “Even that wasn’t true.” So she’s trying to be as truthful as she can and have this — like she’s basically at rock bottom in this sort of scene — and even then she was realising that she still wasn’t —

Breallyn: Yeah, she’s still —

Lyndon: Telling the truth.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And so she was definitely — she’s —

Breallyn: Still pitching it and —

Lyndon: The untrustworthy narrator to herself.

Breallyn: Oh, all throughout.

Lyndon: Throughout —

Breallyn: Yeah…

Lyndon: Almost the entire series.

Breallyn: Which was interesting, ’cause at the start you thought she would possibly be more the guiding voice of wisdom, and have this ethic, or like she wouldn’t cross boundaries and so on.

And then she did, and then, yeah.

Lyndon: Don’t — and then it just got — don’t talk all… Remember I said no spoilers.

Breallyn: Okay. No spoilers.

But yeah.

Lyndon: I was so careful, and then you just wanna go and —

Breallyn: Just — okay, take some of that out. But —

Lyndon: Jeez…

Breallyn: When you think that she’s going to be more of a trustworthy character, but then you see by every decision — yeah, you have to —

Lyndon: Keep ruining it —

Breallyn: Can’t talk about it.

Lyndon: Keep ruining it. She’s conflicted, and she doesn’t realise how much she’s been… or, and not just her either. There’s other characters where they’re having to behave in ways that they would rather not.

It is sobering, isn’t it, to think about what do we tell ourselves, and what is spin and what is the actual truth?

And what can we live with, if we were to go, “You know what? Actually, the truth about me is I’m only telling myself this because it gets me closer to a goal, or gets me through the day.” And I think sometimes, yeah, if you look at things through a different lens, it’s gonna be harder for you to continue with — just name something — whatever it is.

So that’s where we’ll leave it today.

Breallyn: Let’s not look too deeply into… No.

Lyndon: Okay.

One Simple Thing Today

Lyndon: I did have a reason for this — now that I’m flicking through my notes — and I thought we would workshop, and maybe we can do this pretty quickly, with two simple questions.

First question: one simple thing you can do today to move your career forward. The second question: one simple thing you can do today to move your arts practice forward.

So we’re workshopping.

Breallyn: Yeah, I’m thinking.

Lyndon: One simple thing. I wish I had written something down. Oh, I have. What is my one simple thing I can do to further my career?

What does it look like? What does it feel like? No, sorry, that was just three more questions.

Breallyn: All right. You’ll have to go first, ’cause I’m still —

Lyndon: Okay…

Breallyn: Thinking.

Lyndon: For me these days — this is for question one, one simple thing you can do today to move your career forward. These days, for me, career looks more like opportunities.

I think in days gone by, especially when I was a lot younger, and you just say “my career” or think about the career you want, there’s not a lot of detail in it. It’s very scant on detail, very scant on the how.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: For me, anyway. Yeah. This is my experience. It’s not that I think, “Oh, it’s too late to have a career,” ’cause I can look back and go, “Actually, I’ve been doing a lot of stuff anyway.” But it’s more like the career — the idea and the broadness and whatever career kinda meant — it’s not that important to me now.

But the opportunities I say no to are just as important as the opportunities I say yes to. So like, being able to recognise an opportunity nearly for face value, and for how it’s gonna make me feel or what it’s gonna do for me, like right now.

If that makes sense.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: I suppose maybe even last week, that corporate gig — it was like, sure, it’s a gig, and it was good money, but it also gave us the opportunity to get away for 24 hours.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yep, I think so. I think —

Lyndon: Like that’s —

Breallyn: Saying yes to those —

Lyndon: Yeah…

Breallyn: Things that, even if it wasn’t directly — oh, we can also tick something off our to-do list of career-wise steps — it was more just like, it’s important for us to be in different locations sometimes. To have visual things that are different in our, you know —

Lyndon: To touch grass.

Breallyn: Yeah. Touch grass.

Lyndon: Or to touch sand, although I —

Breallyn: Yeah —

Lyndon: Actually didn’t this time. I was within stone’s throw of the beach.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And —

Breallyn: I got one blustery, cold, windy walk on it, which was great. Yeah.

Lyndon: Sounds horrible.

Breallyn: Oh, no, I love walks… It doesn’t matter when. Will always love a walk on the beach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But so that was worth it, I think. So yeah, just — I don’t know — saying yes to little opportunities is really important. And then probably something that we, for many years, either didn’t do so much or just didn’t realise that when we did do it, that’s what we were doing. We were just more like so desperate to do anything.

Lyndon: Oh —

Breallyn: I see what you mean.

Lyndon: Yeah. And sometimes too, I think you kinda look at something and go, “Is this gonna further my career?” And it’s hard to know. Like, in the music scene, when I was younger, I was very — like everyone — you’re enthusiastically naive, you know? And like someone says, “Oh, if you do this and then if you play there, that will mean that you get to then this other opportunity.” And things like that sometimes are true, and sometimes they’re not entirely true, and other times it doesn’t even matter because you can do this other thing over there and that still gets you to the next gig.

But I definitely was thinking, “Oh, there’s gotta be a clear path and if I just got to know the right…” and yeah. And I never had the personality to be able to knock down doors, and I’m not good at small talk and all that kind of stuff.

So, you know. You like to think that you can get somewhere on talent alone and — you generally can’t, I don’t think.

It takes a lot more. Yeah. It takes a lot more than just whatever sort of talent you’re born with, and we all know that’s not even enough in the craft. You have to work hard and get better and build on that.

So yeah, I just think career — even looking back at a career — it is made up of little opportunities anyway.

But yeah, I just think for me these days, if I was to move my career forward, yeah, it’s not really looking at it as a career. It’s just looking at it as, this is what I do.

Actually, I heard Sam Neill talking about himself as an actor, and he sadly passed away a week or so ago. He said — like he obviously had bouts of depression during his life and his career — and he said that one of the things that he found was really helpful was to separate himself from being “Sam Neill the actor.” He was just Sam Neill and he also acted.

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s cool.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And I think that’s similar to being able to get to a place where you go, “This is what I do and I’m looking for the next opportunity,” and it has to, yeah, bring in the income, but it also has to tick a few other boxes as well, and if it doesn’t, then I’ll just say no. It’s not going to ruin my career.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: Yeah. Has that given you enough time to think?

Breallyn: I’m always coming back to — at the stage that I’m at with my writing — obviously we’ve got the podcast going, we’ve got a few different other things going. I’ve got a business that I’m working, and things like that.

But when I think about my creative writing, it’s literally being fierce in protecting my writing time that I’ve set aside for that. And as we speak right now, tomorrow morning is the time I’ve set aside this week. And I have client deadlines that I know that, if I’m true to my own creative writing, then this other work is in grave danger — maybe — of not —

Lyndon: Peril?

Breallyn: Getting finished this week, which it has to be. I have to get it done. So yeah, it’s always — every week I have this.

Lyndon: So you’re —

Breallyn: Every single week I have this toss-up between going, “I’ve got so many other things that I have to do that I can’t really say no to,” and this is one thing that I’m the only person that really knows or cares whether it gets done.

And I find it easy to put myself last there.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: And I’m trying very hard not to do that. Yeah. I need a bit more main character energy.

Lyndon: Yeah. You’re not even the innocent bystander at the moment. You’re the helpless storekeeper.

Breallyn: I’m getting gunned down in the first scene without a line.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. You have blurred the two questions. Sorry. One simple thing you can do today to move your art practice forward — and you started talking about protecting fiercely your time to write. And then in the same sentence, pretty much, some sort of admission of how it’ll probably break down because you’ve got all this pressure from your career, say.

So one simple thing you can do today to move your career forward. I specifically made them two distinct areas because they are so intertwined, really. But it’s like how you perceive them can be really important.

But I will say, maybe this might help you. ‘Cause I think when I said “simple questions” — and the questions that also have the word “simple” in them — one simple thing, the one thing, I think can end up being large and not simple at all.

Maybe that’s the hump to get over.

So it’s more like trying to steer the Titanic, is what I think it is. Where it’s like you make a little adjustment —

Breallyn: Yeah…

Lyndon: But then you gotta wait. You know —

Breallyn: Yeah, true.

Lyndon: It doesn’t turn straight away.

Breallyn: Yep.

Lyndon: And that’s what I feel like it’s like.

Breallyn: Yeah, that is true. If I was fiercely protecting those writing times, it’s like all it is — is making sure that when I’m opening the computer, opening the laptop, or sitting down to do the writing, instead of going, “Ooh, I really need to get that done, and get onto this one and that,” just go, “No. The first thing is my creative writing.”

And then whatever — see, this is the problem — whatever writing energy I have left at the end of that. Yeah, it’s hard to write for eight, nine hours in a day. It’s really hard. I feel like I’ve got good hours for three to four, and that’s it.

Lyndon: That would be pretty normal. That’s hard… I’d imagine.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I think also, it seems like, with client stuff — and I’m the same — there’s an end to it. There’s a deadline that you haven’t had to create yourself normally. And as soon as you’ve gotta just sit down and write — even though it’s a novel and there will be an end and there will then be the process of getting it edited and working with a publisher and so on — it just seems a little bit fantastical compared to something that’s so obviously sitting as a project that needs to be done that you get paid for.

Yeah.

But with all of these things, in the same way that you would probably approach your copywriting, it’s always helpful to break everything down into smaller bite-sized chunks. And you do that with your career stuff, or your money-making stuff, if you wanna call it that.

I like that thing that Paul Coleman said — I’ve mentioned this before on the show a couple of times — where he says, “Do one thing each day to further your career.”

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And so you can say, do one thing each day to further your art or further your arts practice, or to move that forward.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And it’s just that one thing, because you do one thing each day for five days, that’s five things. Or you could sweat on it for a whole week and not do anything.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndon: I was able to go, okay, I guess the career thing for me I was tying more to — okay, I do a gig, I get money. Whereas when I think about the creative stuff, it’s more aligned to studio work, production work. Even though that’s paid for as well, that’s probably closer to where I see my — where I actually wanna create something for me in that space as well.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: And so for instance, if I have someone in here and I get a great guitar tone for them —

Breallyn: Yeah —

Lyndon: I go, “Ooh, I could use that on my thing that I still haven’t done.”

Whereas I think when I go out and I do a gig or a corporate gig, to me that’s a different use of my —

Breallyn: Yeah…

Lyndon: Expertise or —

Breallyn: Yeah, that’s — or whatever — that would be like, yeah, the equivalent of my copywriting for business clients.

Yeah.

Lyndon: Yeah.

Breallyn: It’s like you’re doing your thing that you’re good at, and that you’ve spent years and years getting better at, and you’re using it for somebody’s benefit. And you get paid for it, and that’s the transaction. Yeah.

Lyndon: And it’s good. Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: It’s a good tool in the toolkit, and it’s a good avenue I guess for sustaining yourself artistically.

What’s the second question? One simple thing that I can do today to move my art practice forward. Create opportunities to have artists to work with, either live or in the studio. Have them recommended to me.

Breallyn: Oh, okay. That’s a good thing.

Lyndon: So rather than try and find — this is just something that I’m sure, for people that have been producing for a long time, they know this already, and it’s a no-brainer, and I’m just figuring it out now. But rather than me chase the client and try and get a relationship with the musicians in that sense — how about I go and get relationships with other people that do what I do, and then when their roster is too full, or when they’ve got someone they think I might —

Breallyn: Get trucks and guitars at — I might be — Lyndon’s studio or something.

Lyndon: Yeah. Yeah. They might go, “Look, if you do this over there” —

Breallyn: Yeah —

Lyndon: “And then bring it to me over here.” Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Much — by the time you do that, I’ll be ready to work with you. Yeah. ‘Cause whatever — no compression.

I have no idea what it might look like. Yeah. But do that rather than doing Facebook ads or whatever. I don’t know.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Sure. It’s just — I just — I don’t know. It might be a thing that might work.

Breallyn: Yeah. So that’s one — what did you call it? One simple thing you can do.

Lyndon: Yeah, that’s actually — is for my career, sorry. Yeah. That one.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: That is — sorry, that is part of the —

Breallyn: Oh, okay. Yeah…

Lyndon: Money-making — yeah — thing. I got muddled up here.

Breallyn: All right.

Lyndon: Because that’s what I do.

Breallyn: Yeah. You’ve got the questions in front of you. I’m trying to keep them straight in my head. I can’t remember either of them. All I know is tomorrow morning I’ve got a conflict and I’m already torn up about it.

Lyndon: It’ll all come out in the edit. And you know what? I’m just looking now on my phone. I had it in the right order and I just read — I read it, you know what? I didn’t trust myself. I didn’t trust — you didn’t trust this narrator. I didn’t trust the untrustworthy narrator. Which normally would be the right move. Oh, my gosh.

So regarding my creative practice, I kinda did touch on this before. I’ll boil that down to a single project, which would be recording my next album. Which I have not really been promising people, but I’ve just been saying, “Yeah, I actually do plan on doing it,” and then a decade goes by, and that’s what happens.

But the reason I’m boiling it down to “record my next album” is because that actually feeds and informs so many other areas of my work. It’s nearly like the inverse of what I was saying. I guess it’s circular. Like for instance, if I’m landing on a guitar tone or something on the keyboard, or even just running the bass through a fuzz and I go, “Oh, that and that thing together sound brilliant” — that’s now a sound that I’ve landed on, that I’ve created for me, but I can use that on someone’s —

Breallyn: Yeah…

Lyndon: Album when they come in.

Breallyn: Yeah, of course.

Lyndon: Yeah. So it can work both ways. Yeah, definitely.

But the thing is, with my own stuff, if I want to, I can spend six hours farting around to land on that thing.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: I can’t do that with a client.

Breallyn: No.

Lyndon: But if I’ve already got that thing that works for them, great.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: So yeah, I think that’s what I would do.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: The simple things. But yeah, I guess — how did it all come from the thought of — what was it? Do you ever feel like you’re — yeah — the untrustworthy narrator? And I think it was just to do with that change in your mind, where you realise that maybe you’re telling yourself stuff that just isn’t — I don’t know — maybe it’s not relevant anymore, or you shouldn’t be trusting it, even though it’s you that’s saying it.

Breallyn: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that can come out in so many little ways, like some of these underlying beliefs that we all kind of hold about ourselves. Of, “Oh, I’m not good enough really.” My writing’s not gonna be good enough for real books. Yeah, that’s a pretty simple — or, “I don’t deserve a break in this industry,” or, “I wouldn’t know how to handle criticism, so I don’t wanna stick my head up to have it knocked off.”

Like, all these little held beliefs that maybe we do need to challenge — ’cause they come from our younger selves, or our less secure selves, or our unchallenged selves, possibly. Things like beliefs that we’ve unconsciously continued to believe without challenging them, without revising where they came from and whether they’re still serving us now.

Lyndon: Yeah. And it’s also — you can’t point the finger at other people forever, can you? No, I suppose so. Even if you kinda look at something and go, “I know where that came from, it’s because my brother used to always tell me that I was no good at something or rather,” and now, 30 years later I’ve realised, “Oh, that’s why I’ve never gone out and actually tried to do that business, or —” exactly — “That’s why I never got that investment property.” It’s like — ah, it’s because of that. It’s like — so at some point —

Breallyn: I had an imaginary brother.

Lyndon: I’m not saying me.

I’m the untrustworthy narrator. Haven’t you worked it out yet? Nothing I’ve said today is true. The whole thing was a ruse. I’m not working on any album. What, am I an idiot? If I haven’t done it in the last 10 years, I’m never gonna do it.

Breallyn: No. These are the things you have to challenge.

Lyndon: No.

Breallyn: Very untrustworthy.

Lyndon: I can’t trust my untrustworthy, trustworthy narrator. I’m so — oh, it’s like Inception. I’m so confused. Yeah. I have no clients. We didn’t even go to the Mornington Peninsula.

Breallyn: You definitely —

Lyndon: Weren’t sick. I spent the week in bed. Yeah.

Breallyn: Yeah.

Lyndon: Oh. Lesson learned, everyone. Don’t trust anyone.

Breallyn: Don’t trust even yourself.

Lyndon: Not even yourself, no.

No. Yeah, let’s —

Breallyn: Be truthful. Get your main character energy going, and make it work for you.

Lyndon: And flaunt it. It is good walking through the city with main character energy, even if you don’t realise that’s what you’re doing. Isn’t it?

Breallyn: Everyone’s giving you dirty looks because you won’t step out of the way for them.

Lyndon: Oh, man. I had main character energy when I got my first guitar. Don’t you worry about that. Walking down — Swanston Street. Oh, man. It was all about that guitar.

Breallyn: That’d been cool.

Lyndon: Yeah, it was cool. Yep. Dynasound for the win.

Breallyn: Thanks so much for listening today. We’ll catch you next week.

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